How Worry Undermines Executive Presence | Ep. 105

Episode Summary

Executive presence is not simply how confidently a leader speaks or commands a room. It starts with how leaders manage the worry, assumptions, and internal pressure influencing their decisions.

In this episode, Coach Mo and Dr. Karla Van Havel examine how deeply rooted worry patterns can quietly undermine leadership confidence, communication, and composure under pressure. They explore how executive coaching helps leaders recognize behavioral patterns, challenge limiting beliefs, and separate facts from the stories created by their inner critic. Karla also shares how one overwhelmed executive rebuilt his priorities, improved team relationships, and reclaimed time with his family.

This conversation reveals why leading yourself is the foundation of executive presence and why progress matters more than perfection.

Key Takeaways

• Executive presence begins internally. The way leaders manage self-imposed pressure influences how they communicate, decide, and lead others. 
• Worry can become an invisible leadership pattern. Some leaders remain productive while carrying constant concern because worry has become their normal response to pressure. 
• Separate facts from predictions. Challenging assumptions helps leaders stop reacting to situations that have not actually occurred. 
• Clear expectations protect leadership capacity. Defining responsibilities, priorities, and boundaries can improve team performance without sacrificing personal well-being. 
• Interrupt the pattern before burnout. Coaching creates awareness of the triggers, behaviors, and energy leaks that appear before visible exhaustion or collapse. 

Transcript

Welcome And The SWAG Framework

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Welcome to the Let's Think About It podcast, where high achievers stop performing and start transforming. I'm Coach Moe, certified core energy leadership coach, founder of the Inner Arena, and creator of the Swag Framework. Self-awareness, high power, aligned action, and grip. Around here, we train your mindset, challenge your limits, and turn pressure into purpose. Subscribe now and join me on YouTube at Swag Coaching. So let's get your reps in.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Thank you. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Man, I'm awesome. What part of the country are you checking in from?

SPEAKER_01 1:17

From Nevada. Yeah. So we have a little bit of rain coming in, but we have had beautiful weather all week long. It's been stunning.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

What can you tell us about the biggest, smallest city?

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yes, the biggest little city. We always have things going on. We were just talking a little bit before this started about Art Town that's coming up. And it is so exciting because we have performances and live music, a lot of things going on in the parks, like Shakespeare in the park or Shakespeare on the lake. And then we have live bands in the parks. It's just so many things going on. It is so exciting to be in this area at this time of year. It's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

That's great, man. People out and particularly in

Meet Dr Carla Van Habel

SPEAKER_02 2:05

that area. The weather's really nice. It's cooler.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Of course, we have dry heat here too. Even when it's hot, it's not as hot as the East Coast is for sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

So tell us who you are, what you do, and the type of value that you bring.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Certainly. So I'm Dr. Carla Van Habel, and my PhD is in human and organizational systems. Then I have a couple master's degrees, one also in human and organizational development, and the other in strategic communications and leadership. I have been in the LD space for over 30 years.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

That's a big number to put out there. I actually grew up in this space. So I have had an opportunity to work with some amazing people and thought leaders, and I'm so appreciative and so grateful for all of those opportunities. So what I'd like to do is I like to take all of that great information, all the learning, all the growth I've done throughout my lifetime and educational, academic, and just general on the streets learning and pull it all together. And now I work with people as a coach and as a consultant. I also do workshops and speaking in order to bring human connection back to the workplace and also to help develop confidence, community, and communication skills. So that's where I really come into the picture and play a role.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Okay. To help me understand this, you mentioned coaching and consulting. How do you separate the two under one umbrella and working with clients?

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Well, it depends on the contract that I'm brought in for, right? So some people want specifically coaching where I'm helping them find their own answers and I guide them and support them along the journey. And then consulting is where I'm providing the answers. I come in, I may be teaching a class, doing a workshop, something of that sort where I can come in and help assist with ideas and brainstorming and creativity. Of course, they own those results too. It's up to them what they choose to go with, but it's a little more directive whereas coaching isn't that way.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

So what do you find through

Coaching Versus Consulting In Real Life

SPEAKER_02 4:15

your experience and the work that you do? Which hat do you find that you wear the most?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

I have coaching clients, but I also have consulting clients. I do a lot of workshops. So it goes back and forth. I like to dedicate a lot of time to coaching and I like to bring coaching into every aspect of it. So whether I'm consulting, even if I'm doing public speaking, no matter what it is I'm doing, there are coaching tools and techniques that I bring into every part of that. I think you know this, Mel, right? It becomes part of who you are. When you're really focused in coaching and it's part of your life, it becomes part of your identity.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

And it helps understand all situations that you go into. And it puts a nice frame around everything.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

So let's say you are doing a speaking engagement, okay? And that audience is leadership, leaders in a particular organization, and it's around executive presence and how they can be more effective and how they show up. But you're in this keynote speaking mode. How does coaching come into play in that role? Being a speaker to an audience of leadership.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah, yeah. It depends, of course, on the speaking engagement and what the contract says and what exactly they're wanting. A TED conference is very different from doing an ATD conference, right? There's very large differences in them. The ones that I really love to do are ones where it's more collaborative and I can have the audience involved. So I like to ask them questions. Look at where they're at, why they're at that session, why they come to see me, really taking time to ask some questions about what you would like to do? Where would you like to go? And finding out how the audience likes. So that's where coaching comes in, even when you're a speaker and it's about listening and being able to be flexible in your speaking. I've met a lot of speakers who have it timed down to the millisecond. I'm gonna speak on this till 0.02, I'm gonna speak on this till 0.15, right? But if you're able to have that flexibility and share with people what it is they're actually there for, what they want to learn, then it can make for a great speaking engagement. So it's like we're all learning together, right? We're growing together, we're collaborating on the knowledge. And I just love that vibe. I love that excitement and intensity where it's truly engaging and it's their session, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:51

The the other aspect of it too is you have the ability to bring curiosity into your keynote messaging. We meet

Coaching Tools In Keynotes

SPEAKER_02 7:00

them exactly at the level where they sit, where they stand, where they're at, and we challenge them. How do we move forward? How do we get to that desired outcome? And that's powerful. So when you say you wear your coaching hat, I know asking questions is part of our skill and what we do, but what's your typical methodological approach to coaching? Do you have a framework around coaching that you use with your clients?

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Yeah, when it starts initially, it's with the contract phase, and that's about curiosity. So you're exactly right. We're finding out what it is they want out of coaching. And it's really important to understand what their goals are because they lead the coaching conversation. Not me, they do. And so I established that right in the contract at the very, very beginning when we say, okay, if we're going to work together, this is what it's going to look like. We go through, we establish boundaries, we talk about expectations, and we talk about goals and where they want to be at the end of that contract and period. So most of my coaching engagements are six to nine months for starting with an option to renew and continue. So that's usually my format. Now, when I get into the actual coaching session on a day-to-day basis, even though they set this goal in the contract, they may come in one day with something completely different and be like, oh my gosh, this just happened. The senior leader completely changed all the teams up. We've got this huge project. The did the deadline is next week. How am I going to manage this? Obviously, that takes precedent, right? So even though they've set the big goal on a day-to-day basis on each time that we meet, the those topics that we discuss might change depending on what's going on there. My role is really to support them where they're at, like you said, wherever they show up, however they come in. My goal is to help them through that. Hopefully, we can begin with just some calming and presence so that we approach the entire coaching session with intentionality. So we try to get that calmness, especially if they come in and they are really just go or they're coming in, they are high stress. So we try to bring that level down a little bit so we can turn on the brain and the prefrontal cortex, really think and make some good decisions and work together. So I think of it the game clue. Have you ever played the game clue? You remember that one? Yeah. So it's like the game of Clue, right? There's all these rooms on the game board. And my partner, the person that I'm coaching, the partner, might be in the library. And they're trying to figure out who did it and with what and in what room. But they're playing the game in the dark. They can't see the other rooms. They

Contracting Goals And The Clue Method

SPEAKER_01 9:45

can't see where the other players are or where they're at. But my job as a coach is to shine the light on the game board so they can see which direction they want to go. I help them see all the doors, the pathways, so they can better get an idea of, oh, maybe this person did it and with this tool. So it's really supporting them and helping them to see things with great questions, sometimes a little bit of challenge. Depending on what they want, that's how we work through it. So that's customizable depending on the person that I'm working with and what the client wants.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

That's great. I love that. And how coaches help people, leaders, everyone who accepts it in, navigate. I want to tie back to executive presence because my viewpoint on it is one, you got to learn how to believe self-first. You are the executive of self first. And in this environment, leaders are under a lot of pressure. The ROIs, the budget cuts, personnel decisions, bureaucracy, all of that, that's external pressure. I get that. But we create this inner pressure. And in my eyes, that's where executive presence starts, right? Because we carry limiting beliefs, interpretations, these assumptions, and we got the inner critic that's always just chirping in our head, telling us they don't trust you, you gotta work harder, they're gonna demote you. There's always some sort of narrative in your head that you gotta navigate. You have to be the executive of that. That's where the external burnout happens because it's like a dripping faucet. Drip, drip, right? And each one of those judgmental thoughts that you carry about self over time, it starts to fill the sink up. And that would create the burnout.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah. So there's a couple things that come up for me. That was a great example. And I think the first one is I like to mention to people are these things, the voices that you're hearing in your head, are these things that you would say to a good trusted friend? Because if you wouldn't say that, I don't trust you, I don't like you, you're not good enough. If you wouldn't say that to a good trusted friend, why are you saying it to yourself? We need to be our own trusted best friend. So I think that's a really important thing is to really take those voices in your head and talk to yourself like a good friend, like you are a supporter. Try to change those voices. And it takes practice. I'm not going to say you can do this overnight, it takes practice, but work on changing those voices so you have that confidence boost, that supporter, as you're going into situations where you need to have executive presence. I think that's really helpful. I also think that it's important as you're doing executive presence and working on this to not jump to assumptions. It's very easy to assume the audience is interpreting me this way or that person that I'm meeting with is thinking that, right? We don't want to have assumptions. Again, approach things with curiosity and having the human, I'm huge on human interaction. This is something that's very important to me. And sometimes it can be very grounding to have that human interaction. It can help prevent you from jumping to assumptions when you have somebody you can actually ask and say, I feel like the audience was really quiet. What did you take away from that? Was it something I was doing? It's grounding to have somebody else go, oh no, they're quiet because the coffee is out in the coffee machine or whatever, right? To give you a little more grasp on reality. And that human connection can also counteract those voices in your head. So when you start down that path, possibly of having negative voices and you're trying to change it, actually talk to your best friend or a trusted partner and get their opinion and get their thoughts. And it can help you rebalance your system sometimes. Remember how to be your own trusted best friend. So those are some of the things that I found work really well for me and for some of my coaching partners. What have you found works really well for you?

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Let's call it a layer deeper. Some leaders are brought up through the ranks being a warrior. A warrior, right? What I mean by that from a deeper perspective is they grew up in environments where maybe their parents worried a lot. And that naturally became a part of who they are. When pressure hits, they worry. That's the pattern.

Executive Presence And Inner Pressure

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Okay. So they don't know to ask themselves those questions that you suggested. Maybe why am I worrying so much in real time? They don't know how to pause to do that because that's the pattern. They don't know what they don't know, but they're still productive. But part of their pattern is to worry. What you're saying is people should pause, stop, and ask themselves these questions. But what do you say to the people who don't know that they do that behavior and they don't know what they don't know to stop and pause to address the behaviors? How does coaching come into play from that viewpoint?

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah. Like start by taking out the word should, because I don't want to should anybody, right? So I just want to share what has worked for me and for the people that I work with. And I think if you're a leader, usually by the time you've gotten into a leadership position, you have a growth mindset. You like to learn, you like to grow. So chances are, even if you're a warrior or somebody who has a lot of concern, if you are a person like that, oftentimes you're looking to find answers and try to find ways you can do things. So the hope is through things like this podcast and other forms and through coaching, people are able to address that, figure out how they can best work through. And there's lots of different methodologies. So it's finding what works best for you as a person who's trying to overcome this and who's trying to grow from it and learn from it. Whether it's breathing techniques, whether it's getting outside, whether it's exercise that can help to calm the nervous system, or it might be a grounding activity, like sitting there and separating what is truth versus what is assumption, what is fact versus what are you predicting? And you can look at really all or nothing thinking and look at these different types of methods that can be leading towards this worrying attitude. And coaching, what we can do with coaching is of course offer that support. We can offer ideas, if asked, where they can look at these different ways and see what fits them and what helps them as an individual. Lots of different ways to handle that worry. It's very common, depending on your generation and what you've gone through, your culture, all these different areas, to at least at some point have some worry, right? Again, especially for leaders, because we are in a position where there's a lot of weight on our shoulders. People depend on us, people's jobs and livelihood depends on us. And so that can be really heavy. And sometimes having a coach can be really helpful to help you work through that and continue to move forward and not let that worry drag you down. Because if you don't deal with it, it will.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

And concern, the weight of the world on your shoulders will bring you down at some point. So it's really important to be able to continue working through it, growing, and seeing things as opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

What we do is we also help create awareness around that pattern of that behavior because there's typically a shift that

Worry Patterns And Calming Strategies

SPEAKER_02 17:35

happens. When things are going good, you feel your authentic self, you feel good, and then something triggers it to where you move into this, you shift into this different state. And in that different state is where the worry happens. We help you define what that state is, and how do we become intentional about it when we know it's going to happen in the future? What strategies can we put in play so that when that shift happens, that's what the pattern is. Yeah. What behaviors can we implement that will bring us back to our calm?

SPEAKER_01 18:19

And as coaches, one of the things that we're really able to bring to the table is recognizing patterns, challenging limiting beliefs, that's right, and helping our clients to find a system that works for them.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

That's right. Swag framework, self-awareness, white power, aligned action, and grid. Because guess what? When you're off the alignment, your swag is off. Your swag is off. And my audience knows what that means because I talk about it here all the time. We're trying to get you back on the train tracks, whatever that looks like. And the great thing about it is you define it as the client of what those train tracks look like. And we are your cheerleaders, like you mentioned, your allies, your assistant, however you want to define it.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Like a sounding board, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Sounding board, all of that stuff to try to help you get back to what your ideal version of success looks like. And we build that trust, we build the camaraderie, we build relationship, we build the partnership, and we're your ally. And that's what I love about this work that we do.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Yeah. And it's one of the areas where the workplace community insight and it's an assessment and it's a program where we there's a model that I use. It's called the bring model, and it's about bringing people together. And it's really about human connection. And we talk about the importance of belonging. And this is all the letters of bring, right? B is for belonging, R is reciprocity and voice, and then I is about having interwoven connections. N is about the needs being met, and then G is goals that you have in common. And so through the Workplace Community Insight program, you're able to really bring people together. And it goes with having swag. If your swag is on and you have these trusted alliances and this community in your workplace, you can do amazing things.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Absolutely. How does my audience get more information about your brain work?

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Certainly, they can reach out to me. I'd love to hear from them, either on LinkedIn at Dr. Carla Van Habel on LinkedIn. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and then I have a website, which is centerknowledge.com. And through those, you can reach me and email me, send me a note, and I will contact you back. I'd love to hear from anyone in the audience who'd like to know more.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

That's awesome. I love success stories. Give us the success story.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Oh, I'd love to. I'm going to talk about a success story for a

Workplace Belonging The BRING Model

SPEAKER_01 21:00

gentleman that I worked with for a while. And it was really a pleasure because when I first started working with him, he was overwhelmed, right? He's in a high position within an organization. He was very overwhelmed. Time management was not working for him. He likes to be very organized, but wasn't feeling it. And he would go into work early and he would leave at seven or eight o'clock. He had kids and wasn't seeing his kids, wasn't taking time with his family. And he felt like things were just slipping away. And it was such a pleasure to work with him because through our work, we met for a while. We did everything from a time management study where we actually looked at where his time was being spent, and then we were able to break it down. We looked at priorities, we looked at what his actual job outline and description is, what he's actually responsible for, what he's not responsible for, and how that aligned with his time. We even looked at energy. Where is where in what time of days is energy high? What time is it low? And we were able to put all that together. And then we worked through specific situations, such as team management, that he was looking at how to build community within his team. And we were able to actually implement some structure so that he could work on community within his team. So all these different things we worked on. Here's the end result. He now goes in at a rational hour and he leaves by 5:30 every day.

unknown 22:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

He gets his stuff done. He's very well respected, has relationships with his people, and he has a relationship with his family.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

That's great. What did you see in his executive presence and how he shifted from one state to another from a view of being a coach? What did you notice?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

The confidence really changed. He knew he could do the job. He knew he could do the work, but he wasn't as confident in his connections with his team. He wasn't as confident in his communications and how to do that. And it's hard when you want to go home and see your family. You've worked your hours, but you need to communicate to your boss the priorities that I do need time with my family.

A Leadership Turnaround Story And Closing

SPEAKER_01 23:10

And that's a hard conversation to have sometimes. And communicating with the team, this is what you're responsible for. This is what I'm responsible for. Really outlining those expectations. Clear with people is being kind. So it's really important that your communication remains clear and consistent with your people. So I would say his communication really changed, his confidence really changed, and the community with which he works really changed. And so now he's able to have time for himself and for the things that he values and feels are important.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

That's great to hear. As we get ready to sign off, any lasting thoughts you would like to share with the audience?

SPEAKER_01 23:53

I would like to share one thought here. It's something that really resonates with me, and maybe it'll resonate with some of your members, especially those dealing with executive presence. A lot of us are overachievers or even perfectionists, if you'd like to use that term. Yeah. And we're looking at executive presence. And I think it's so important to focus on progress, not perfection. Think about the journey, not just the destination.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

There it is. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

That's another rep in the inner arena. You didn't just listen, you leveled up your swag. Self-awareness, why power, aligned action, and grit. If this hit home, share it, subscribe to the Let's Think About It podcast, and log in with me on YouTube at Swag Coaching. Until next time, stay aware, lead with your why, act in alignment, and keep your grit strong.