Leadership Burnout Starts Before Collapse | Ep. 96

Episode Summary

Burnout rarely starts with exhaustion.

It starts with internal pressure.

In this episode, Coach Mo and Valerie Dumont explore how leaders quietly drift into burnout through over-functioning, perfectionism, people pleasing, and the pressure to prove themselves. From new leadership roles to executive decision-making, they unpack how internal narratives shape executive presence, confidence, and leadership performance.

The conversation challenges traditional views of burnout and highlights why leadership under pressure often creates invisible energy leaks long before collapse occurs.

You will hear practical insights on recognizing early burnout signals, understanding the connection between nervous system awareness and leadership development, and learning why strategic pause may be one of the most overlooked executive coaching tools available today.

If leadership feels heavier than it should, this episode offers a powerful reset.

Key Takeaways

Burnout Starts Earlier Than You Think

Burnout is rarely sudden. It often begins through internal pressure, overthinking, and the constant need to prove yourself.

Notice the Body Before the Breakdown

Headaches, tension, fatigue, and emotional contraction may be leadership warning signs, not inconveniences. 

Release the Need to Be Liked

Leaders seeking validation often hesitate, avoid difficult conversations, and unintentionally weaken trust. 

Strategic Pause Creates Better Decisions

Constant firefighting creates reaction. Reflection creates leadership capacity. 

Executive Presence Is Felt Before It Is Seen

Teams often feel leadership confidence, uncertainty, and alignment before leaders ever speak.

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Transcript

Welcome And The SWAG Framework

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Welcome to the Let's Think About It podcast, where high achievers stop performing and start transforming. I'm Coach Mo, certified core energy leadership coach, founder of the Inner Arena, and creator of the Swag Framework. Self-awareness, my power, aligned action, and grit. Around here, we train your mindset, challenge your limits, and turn pressure into purpose. Subscribe now and join me on YouTube at Swag Coaching. So let's get your reps in.

Meeting Valerie In Switzerland

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Welcome to another episode of the Let's Think About It podcast. I'm your host, Coach Mo, and I'm here with another amazing guest. And her name is Valerie Damont. Valerie, how are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Oh, I'm yeah, as I said before, because we just chat a little bit, I'm super excited those days. So yeah, I am full of energy and so looking forward about the future. So yeah, I'm that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

I hear an accent. Where are you checking in from around the world?

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Yeah, very far from you. I'm in Europe, in Switzerland, the French part of Switzerland. So that's my accent.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Nice. I love it. I love it. What's one great thing you can tell us about Switzerland?

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Oh, it's it's very small. So, first of all, it's very small, and we have three main languages German, Italian, and French. So it's and three different cultures, so it's always different difficult to understand each other. And then as it's very small, things are closed. I live five minutes by the lake, so five minutes walk, and I'm by the lake enjoying a walk, and I live 15 minutes from the ski slopes. So it's really great.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

It's nice.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Yes, it's really nice.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

That's awesome. Do you ski? Do you ski a lot?

SPEAKER_02 2:27

A lot, the whole winter, every single weekend. Of course, I need that.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

That's great.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

I do a lot of sports. Do you train? Do you work out?

SPEAKER_01 2:39

I'm a sports guy. I do work out, but skiing isn't one of those sports that I partake in. I'm in California. Of course. You don't really get snow here. I'm not too far. I'm about an hour and a half away from South Lake Tahoe where it snows up there. I've never been a snow sports guy. I'm a football guy and I'm a basketball guy.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Basketball, I love that. My son does some basketball with his friends and he really loved it, but he doesn't love the competition. He loves to play. So yeah, and I love watching him, but he doesn't want me to support him. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Yeah, that's great. So tell my audience who you are, what you do, and the type of value that you bring.

Corporate Career To Values-Led Mentoring

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Okay. So I yes, I'm an I've been an entrepreneur for 15 years now, and I have a background in marketing and in business and economics. And I've worked before being my own boss. I worked in the corporate world, of course, having a career, burning out twice. And then I realized I need to be my own boss and have my own company because I don't fit in. It was the beginning of social media here in Switzerland. So I was one of the first ones to be a consultant. And today, over the last 10, 12 years, I have not been a coach but more a sparing partner or a mentor, helping entrepreneurs to find more sense, leading their company with their values, their whys, and with less stress and pressure, outer pressure, inner pressure as well, and less ego and so on. And today I understand why we have done over the years, the last years, all those inner work because knowing us is so important today in the age of AI. So, yes, here is what I'm doing. And now I think this summer I'm gonna train people, help people understand how to build their AI employee from the inner to the outer world, from their inner governance. So I'm very good at helping people detect what's stuck in there and how to build a system that's sustainable, whether it's their own living system or their company. I only work with entrepreneurs and small business companies, a little bit of solopreneurs, sometimes they are coaches, but uh yes, mainly they have a small business with two or three employees.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Thank you for sharing your background.

Two Burnouts And Learning Presence

SPEAKER_01 5:47

One of the things that stood out to me, you mentioned burnout a couple of times, you burned out a couple of times. How did that affect your executive presence and that time in the role in dealing with burnout and how you shut up?

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Oh my god. It was very hard because the first time I was 25, I'm 50 today. I didn't understand at the moment what happened. I was sitting on my couch on a Sunday morning and I couldn't move anymore. I have no more energy, my brain was not working anymore, and I was really lost because I've been such an overperformer and achiever for the first part of my life. And so at the this first burnout didn't affect me unless it was on my the physical part and the energy part. But I didn't do anything. Yes, I started to do coaching, personal development, but at the brain level and rational part. And okay, it was the beginning, but three years later, I was facing exactly the same issues and felt exactly the same. And at that time, I had no choice than to leave the corporate world to know myself and know what I value and who I am. And then it's only when I became an entrepreneur, I built my own company and I started all those stuff, real deep questions. Who you are, how do you want to serve, who do you want to serve, what are your values, what is your why are you here right now? Why do you and what why does your soul embodied at that time? And those deep questions. And then I realized that to live this life, I'm a man to, I have to be really present, which means more than my brain can understand at that time. It can only be with my body, within my body, with my breath. And this is the kind of presence it taught me, but I have to deprogram my brain for that, and it has to accept there's another way of being and to do stuff, and because everyone around me was into this performance stuff, perfectionism, and so on, and uh, I couldn't be that because it has absolutely no hand, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Help me understand this. So you're working for a company, you're getting burned out, and

Entrepreneur Pressure And Body Signals

SPEAKER_01 9:00

then you decide you want to be an entrepreneur, right? You built your company from scratch and whatnot, right? But there's a different type of pressure when you're building your own company, right? Yeah, how did pressure show up in that sense and managing burnout from that place?

SPEAKER_02 9:20

Yes. And the thing is that the burnout signs were they never let left me because even today or this week, when I'm over excited about stuff, I can feel here between my solar plexus and my heart center, I can feel when it's contracted. And it's this contraction is a has a little vibration, and it's the signal that I'm not aligned and not present, and that my brain is working hard. It's for me, it's like that. So I teach my clients to understand how it is for them because we are all different.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

So I would like to teach them the signals, how to recognize the signals of burnout before the actual burnout happens.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Yes, because the the body, even last week, I had one of my clients said, Oh, I had a migraine and I keep on pushing the whole day, but had such a headache, and so on. And she said, At one point I couldn't bear it anymore, and I allow myself to stop working to go to bed, and I was like that. Oh my god, it's so crazy, because she was pushing so hard on herself, and she realized that she didn't work very good, she was not performing or doing great, because she was fighting herself because she thinks she has to, and uh so then we work on that on recognizing what are the signs for her, because the week was hard, and what happened that made this headache be so hard on her? Yes, to piggyback to your question, you're good. The pressure for me as an entrepreneur is the only pressure that I have is my ego telling me when I'm not aligned or when I'm afraid of something, or when I don't know, those days I'm waiting for client payment and I don't know why she's late. And I worried a little bit, but then I want to tell her, Hey, listen, girl, it's not the way I'm working. So if you want to work with me, you don't voicemail me the for one week and pay after. First of all, you pay and then you can voicemail me. But um, that's the kind of pressure that I have, but it's it's only thoughts and noise, and it's not really true. It's I don't have any pressure because I'm living here in Switzerland, I am safe right now, we are at the beginning of the month, so I have paid all my bills, I know what's coming, and even if I don't have any clients, maybe right now, I know that I need two or three just to have enough money for the month. So, what is the pressure? The pressure to what produce a podcast at one date because no, I am free. I am free. If I don't want to produce or send a newsletter on Monday because I do it each single Monday, okay, I'm not gonna do it. So I have no pressure, really, I have no pressure.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

That's great because I like what you said in teaching your clients how to identify the early signals of burnout.

Energy Leaks And Internal Pressure

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Typically, the burnout comes from the internal pressures that we create within self. And I have my process as well, too. And that's the swag framework self-awareness, white power, aligned action, and grit. And that's the signal because people often think that burnout is we are very tired and we need more rest. In my opinion, burnout happens over a duration of time, in which I consider energy leaks. And as you mentioned, we create this inner pressure. So here's what I mean by this. Let's just say you you're going on an interview for a job and you land the job, okay? Interview went great, you got the job, you're excited about the job, okay. Fast forward day number one, you have to show up. You're carrying all of this nervousness because you don't know what to expect, and you're worried if you're gonna be successful on day one. And so when you get there on day one, maybe you carry this excitement but a little bit of anxiety. Am I gonna be able to perform to the excellence that they hired me to do? Well, that's a small piece of internal pressure that I'm starting to put on myself. So now I'm in the organization for about a month, right? I show up every day trying to prove myself so that my boss knows that I'm more than capable of doing the job, and I say yes to everything to show everybody that I'm capable of doing the job. As I continue to say yes, I'm creating more pressure on myself, right? Because the other internal baggage that I'm carrying is one, I can't say no. Number two, I have to show everybody that I know what you hired me for, and I can't afford to ask anybody for any help because I need to prove my worth that I'm capable of doing this job. That's the internal pressure, right? Yep. The fact that you're carrying this, it makes it hard to let go and start to trust because you're carrying this internal narrative that I have to be XYZ. That's fueled from that inner critic. That's saying you gotta push, you gotta push, you gotta push. In return, you're in this new job, which should be a happy time in your life, is shifting toward a weight of overthinking, overfunctioning, decision fatigue, and it really starts to affect your executive presence and how your lead, people around you, and that is how I define the burnout that starts to affect yeah, it's the very beginning, of course. Yeah, absolutely, and ultimately your swag is off. Of course, it's off because number one. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely, yeah. It's off because your set your self-awareness in the moment, you're overthinking and over-functioning, and you don't realize that you're doing that because you're so caught up in the moment of trying to prove yourself. Because you're in the moment of trying to prove yourself, you often become distracted away from your true purpose and why you're even there. When you're distracted from your purpose, your aligned actions become a little bit stagnant and you're a little bit off the mark, and then you become this worrisome being that makes you feel that you have to be competitive. Yeah, and so your grid is off because now you're trying to grind harder. So in all your swag is off, and that creates this train over time, though. Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Over time, and add to that a partner, kids, commuting, I don't know, a mood, or whatever, or health issues, but because of course it will end with end issues, with health

Releasing Expectations And Being Liked

SPEAKER_02 17:27

issues. So, yes, and you said something that had my attention, it was expectations. You start a job and you have expectations. What kind of expectations do those come from? Because the thing is that the more I have expectations, the more I put pressure on myself, you know, if I can do something about this situation, because the thing is that I have no absolutely no control of what can or will happen. The only control that I have is my thoughts, you know, and then my thoughts will rewire my emotions and then my behavior, you know, famous triangle. So yeah, if I have expectation, what kind of expectation? I have the expectation that my brother called me for my birthday and each single time he doesn't call me. So what can I do for that? I start a fight or is I or I release my expectation if and if one day he wishes me happy birthday, I will be so happy. So let's release expectations. I have expectations with my mother-in-law, with my child, with everyone. I have expectations. I even have expectation with this client that doesn't pay me right now. If I release my expectation, you can feel my shoulder so much lighter.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

But look, you made me think about something when you were saying expectation, because this is a show that we take it deeper and thinking about the stuff. Here's an expectation that often leaders put on themselves. The expectation that they need to be liked as a new boss or as a leader. That expectation that they put on themselves makes them become hesitant to have difficult conversations because they start creating this judgment that if I do have this difficult conversation and it doesn't go well, then I won't be liked. And then that becomes an internal pressure that people carry because they want to be liked and accepted as a leader. They avoid micromanaging. But as a new leader, you have to micromanage because if you don't know the processes and you're new to an organization, you have to get into the weeds of what's moving forward and what's going on, aka micromanage. Until you understand the processes and the people who are working the processes, from that standpoint, trust is established. And once trust is established, you can back off because they view micromanaging as a bad narrative approach to leadership, they avoid it because they want to be liked, and that's not necessarily true.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Absolutely. You know, each time we tell ourselves a story, whatever the story is, here in this case, it's I need to be like and appreciate so that I can be the best leader of the company. Okay, so first of all, what is a good leader? Where does this story come from? What is your role as a leader? And why do you need to be liked? Why? Because you don't want, you need recognition, you need you don't you fear rejection and so on. But I just put it here, so I don't know what the good answer. But the thing is that ask our let's ask ourselves those right questions and reframe what's this inner dialogue and this pressure because it's really damaging our lives, the companies, our team, or our their team, and it's not doing good to anyone. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

I think it's also looking for external validation. From outside inward, right? Instead of establishing what's important to self, understanding your values, understanding what your purpose is and your goals and things like that internally, let that become the driver of your decision making, not being validated by the people you work with that are around you for them to like you. And because they like you, it makes you feel good, and that's how you're going to make your decisions moving forward. I think that's how leaders show up, and it makes it difficult to make these decisions on the fly because there's this hesitancy, right? And this is how it affects your executive presence and how that trust gap becomes wider because your employees can see when you hesitate. They can see when you're not confident. Actually, not see, they can feel it.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

They can feel it in your yes, that's what I wanted to hear, feel.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

You know what I'm saying? Because you want to be light, that hesitation to have the conversation. People feel that. They feel the nervousness.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Then over time, slowly but surely, that's what's creating the burnout. It's those little energy leaks, the hesitation, the overthinking, should I or should not, the overfunctioning, the decision fatigues of uncertainty and the doubts that we naturally carry in those moments because we're trying to be light over time? That's what affects our burnout.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Yep, yep. Can

Embodied Leadership Through Pause And Balance

SPEAKER_02 23:40

you can you feel in your body, like right now, your values, your power, your strengths, your talents, and so on. Can you feel it right now in your body?

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Absolutely. But you have to have consciousness of your body to know that you can feel it.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

If you only understand what I where I want to go is because if you only understand what are your values, strengths, and so on, skills, and it's only here, and it will not create the inner security you need to embody your leader posture. So maybe I don't know how you work, but I love to because I'm a I'm a sports girl too, I love to put my clients on the you know, the buzz bowl, the half bowl cut in the middle, you know, this uh this screening stuff. I love to put them on it and have them do some squats and so on, because they have to find their balance and then go back inside and feel their power from this balance. And now they are in their body, and I say, okay, now tell me who you are, who do you are quiz, who you are as a leader, as an entrepreneur, who you are when you speak your truth, and and the you can see the results in their face because they feel it, and they are you see their brians, and it's so great.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

In a nutshell, you're helping them pause and reset. Absolutely. A lot of times when we're in these roles as leaders, we're putting out a lot of fires. There's a lot of noise happening within our organizations, and a lot of times we have no control over it. But that ego is telling us, we gotta do this, we gotta do this, you can't stop, you gotta put this out, you gotta do this, gotta do this. I don't have time to think about that. And what you're doing from listening to you is you're helping your clients strategically pause and ask themselves these questions. Because if you can take the time to answer those questions from within self, right? Yeah, now you're gaining more purpose and understanding values so that when these critical decisions happen that needs to be made in real time, guess what, you're naturally more confident because there's that alignment that's created from the pauses.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

And you can take the right decision which is the most sustainable one. Because when you keep on being the firefighter, you are under pressure, your nervous system is exhausted, and you just react. And sometimes it's just a band aid on blood, but uh, but it's not sustainable at all, and it it's it drains everyone's energy.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

So I think that's why we are extremely valuable uh professionals, whether we're a coach, whether we're a mentor, whether we're consultant, because we help clients just pause, pause, and without that pause, you're naturally reacting to everything. And over time, that's what creates the burnout. You don't necessarily see it happening in real time because you're distracted from your self-awareness. Yep, you're distracted from purpose in these moments, and the ego, the inner critic, is louder and flouder and is coercing you to just push through it. Ignore the signals that you're feeling. Don't listen to that. Let's listen to me.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

They are very good at that, at making us ignoring the body signals, the even if we have an angel talking on our shoulder saying, Oh, you should rest, or you should see a coach, or you should blah blah blah, but it the voice is whispering, and we can't we can't listen to we can't hear it. So it's it's really crazy how it works.

Mo’s Burnout Mirror Assessment

SPEAKER_02 28:24

You face burnout too?

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Oh, yeah, always. Not always now, but in the past. Actually, that's how I got into coaching because I lost a job, right? And before I was introduced to coaching, I was stressed, I was burned out and trying to find another job. And then this worrisome feeling that I was carrying, that I'm not successful, this imposter syndrome that I'm carrying, all of that became overwhelming and it put me in this deep funk. And that's a form of burnout, too, because my days was consumed with me thinking I'm not good enough.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

You know what I mean? That affected my confidence and how I showed up. And I was always worrying where is my income gonna come from? When am I gonna get another job? And blah, blah, blah. Why did this happen to me? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Yes, and the more you thought about it, the less opportunities arise. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Yep. And the coaching kind of helped pull me out of that runt. And that's what transformed me to want to help other people that are in situations of being burned out, like the way I was, and help them get out of that situation. Even to this day, I created a burnout mirror assessment where you have an opportunity to take this free assessment and it prints out an archetype of the types of burnout that you may be carrying. It's pretty cool. It's free. Anyone can take it, it's at the interarena leadership.com forward slash. You take it, it takes about five minutes to take, and then it just prints out an archetype description of what your burnout looks like. Even if you are in burnout or you not, it prints this archetype and it's just an avenue to start the conversation. It's an avenue to create awareness that I got some leaks. Let me holler at Mo about my leaks that I may be experiencing. And that's it.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yes. It's it sounds great, really. I have to have a look. And yeah, I'm really into it because my sister-in-law is on the internet.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

As we get ready to wrap up, what are some lasting thoughts that you like to share with the audience?

AI Employees And Closing Links

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Oh, yes. Uh people are overwhelming and doing more and doing more, and they are stuck in the hamster wheel and they have no time to listen to the angel. And one thing that they can do now, because it's really riding everywhere, so hire some AI employee not to do more and not to put more pressure on you, but to get some free time to think or to go to see visit you without the culpability to leave your work just in the middle of the day to meet your coach. So, yes, offer you some free time with AI employees because there are so many stuff we can delegate to them to be more present with our team, with our clients, with ourselves too. If we don't have any moment to rest, to think without the pressure, the inner critic, and the ego, we will burn out. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

How can my audience find you?

SPEAKER_02 31:49

On my website, being is the new doing.com or on my French website, which is translated in English, valeriedemont.ch. So, yeah. And on Substack if you want to read some articles, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Okay, thank you. Thank you, Valerie. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Oh, it was so great. Uh I love your energy.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Yeah, thank you. This was a great conversation. I appreciate you stopping by. Have a good day.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Yes, you too. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

That's another rep in the inner arena. You didn't just listen, you leveled up your swag. Self-awareness, why power, aligned action, and grit. If this hit home, share it, subscribe to the Let's Think About It podcast, and lock in with me on YouTube at Swag Coaching. Until next time, stay aware, lead with your why, act in alignment, and keep your grit strong.