Let's Think About It Podcast

Episode 54: Burnout, Boundaries, and Breaking Through Fear

• Morice Mabry • Season 2 • Episode 54

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Episode Summary

After 33 years of breaking barriers in the Navy, Dee Allen retired—but not from leadership. In this powerful episode, she shares her journey from military service to executive coaching and why self-confidence, not credentials, is often the missing piece at the top. Coach Mo and Dee unpack the inner fears that plague even the most accomplished leaders—imposter syndrome, fear of failure, and the illusion of having no choice. With clarity and compassion, Dee explains how coaching helps leaders reclaim their mindset, confidence, and professional power. Whether you're in the C-suite or mid-career, this episode reminds you: you’re not stuck—you're one insight away from your next breakthrough.

Key Takeaways

  • Confidence Crumbles at the Top
    Even senior leaders in the C-suite struggle with self-doubt—especially when they feel isolated and pressured to constantly perform.
  • From Role Model to Change Agent
    Dee Allen’s leadership philosophy reframes influence; she didn’t just rise in the ranks—she rewrote Navy policy for women and families.
  • Burnout Isn’t a Time Problem, It’s a Boundaries Problem
    Leaders often put professional development last—but protecting time for growth is essential to staying sharp and centered.
  • Fear Thrives in Isolation
    When high-level leaders stop talking through their challenges, fear of failure and limiting beliefs take over. Coaching provides a way out.
  • Development Looks Different Now
    Dee challenges the traditional view of professional development—books, podcasts, reflection, and shadowing all count, not just courses.



Connect with me on Instagram and Facebook @Coach_Mo_Coaching, on LinkedIn as Morice Mabry, or visit my website at moricemabry.com for exclusive content.


Speaker 1:

Welcome to the let's Think About it podcast, where we embark on a journey of thoughtfulness and personal growth. I'm your host, Coach Mo, and I'm here to guide you through thought-promoting discussions that will inspire you to unlock your full potential. In each episode, we'll explore a wide range of topics, from self-discovery and mindfulness to goal-setting and achieving success. Together, we'll challenge conventional thinking and dive deep into the realms of possibility. Whether you're looking to find clarity in your personal or professional life, or seeking strategies to overcome obstacles, this podcast is your go-to source for insightful conversations and practical advice. So find a comfortable spot, chill and let's embark on this journey of self-improvement together. Remember, the power of transformation lies within you, and together we'll uncover the tools and insights you need to make it happen. So let's dive in. Welcome to another episode of the let's Think About it podcast. I'm your host, Coach Mo, and I'm here with another amazing, exciting guest. Her name is Dee Allen. Miss Dee, how are you, my sister?

Speaker 2:

I am well. Thank you, coach Mo. Happy to be here.

Speaker 1:

I'm happy to have you, but first things first. Where are you checking in from around the country?

Speaker 2:

I am checking in from the DMV. I'm actually located in Northern Virginia but you know how we are up here.

Speaker 1:

Weed one time going to DC, but I've never actively just been in the state of Virginia.

Speaker 2:

You've got to come.

Speaker 1:

What's one thing that's great about your area that you live in?

Speaker 2:

It's so much to do. You know, people live in the suburbs because they don't like the hustle and bustle of being in DC, or even like Baltimore, but there is something going on every day of the week. Me and my husband both said we are both military. When we retired we said there is no other place to be but in the DMV because there's always something to do. So we love it here. We came kicking and screaming but it kind of grew on us. So we love it here. We came kicking and screaming, but it kind of grew on us. So it's home now.

Speaker 1:

But tell me, tell my audience, who you are, what you do and the type of value that you bring.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Well, I am Dee Allen. I actually hail from Birmingham, alabama. The roadside joined the Navy directly out of high school and I decided I was going to do four years just to be able to get that money for education. But it grew on me and 33 years later I was finally retired. They were actually going like it's time for you to go because you can't do anything else going like it's time for you to go because you can't do anything else.

Speaker 2:

Really loved my time in uniform. Got to serve my country, got to travel the world, met some amazing people that I still keep in touch with to this day. Absolutely love it. When I retired from the military I had no idea what I wanted to do and a really dear friend of mine said you should become an executive coach. It is your calling. And I was just like really.

Speaker 2:

And I was just like I'm gonna have to think about that. So COVID hit and I had a lot of time on my hands so I was like, let me look into this executive coaching. So did some research, immediately jumped into a program and got certified, and the rest is in the history books. Absolutely love coaching my niche. I focus on executive leadership coaching. I've met some amazing people in this space. In this industry. Everybody deserves a coach, regardless of where you are in the food chain of your organization. So if you want to coach, you need some help reaching your goals. I am definitely your person.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so help me understand this. So you made the decision to go into the Navy right after high school. What made you take that route? First, let's explore that. What made you go that route you take?

Speaker 2:

that route first, let's explore that. What made you go that route? Absolutely. You know.

Speaker 2:

Education was huge in my family. My parents was very strict, Like you had to come on with A's and B's, you know. So education was really huge, but my parents just couldn't afford to send us to college. So I decided I would join the military to get some money for my education. The military is so good with that. They provide that money for people to go back and get their education. Little did I know I was going to fall in love with them. I thought I was going to do my first four years and then walk away, but it sort of just stuck with me and I felt like I was really good. Leadership is my thing. I'm a definite, a natural leader. In the military they just really allow you to just really be your authentic self, and that's me. My authentic self is all about leadership, anything and all things leadership. So I was able to just spread my wings and just really be able to grow within that organization. I kept getting promoted so I was like I might as well stay.

Speaker 1:

That's great. So as you were going through this evolution of growth within the military structure, what type of fears and biases came up for you that you really had to learn to navigate, as an African-American woman, in a structure that's highly populated with men, let alone white men?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. You know, throughout my career I always found that most times I was the only one at the table that didn't instill fear in me. That instilled a purpose in me, because if I was the only one at the table that didn't instill fear in me, that instilled a purpose in me. Because as I was coming up through the ranks, when I would look upward, there wasn't a lot of people that looked like me and I was determined to change that. So I worked hard, I set my goals. I knew the rank and position that I wanted to accomplish early on. After I made that decision to stay.

Speaker 2:

I always believe never let anybody tell you that you can't do something, especially when they haven't done it themselves. So I was determined. I was like this is what I want to do, these are the goals that I want to accomplish, and I am so thankful that I was able to do that. I reached that rank, I reached that position, and it was almost like breaking through that glass ceiling. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't the first. But there were several role models that came before me who helped pave the way, and I just hope that I was able to pave the way for some of the young ladies coming behind me, and that was my ultimate goal is to make things just a little bit better and easier for the ones coming behind me.

Speaker 1:

I hear leaving a legacy.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you for that. You know, a lot of times people go, oh my God, you're a role model. And I always say I don't see myself as a role model. I really wanted to see myself as a change agent. So I really just, you know, shifted gears a little bit, changed that language on them. I know what a change agent is and that's exactly what I set forth when I decided that some of the things that I wanted to do the Navy was really good to me, decided that some of the things that I wanted to do, the Navy was really good to me.

Speaker 2:

I ended up having some very unique positions. One of the things I was able to do is I was able to actually write policy for the Navy that was specific for women, and I absolutely I was able to help shape policies that helped our females when it came to giving birth, on active duty and remaining on board. We created policies for fathers. People always go oh, you focus just on women. Dads are part of the program as well. Right, they're part of the family. So we were able to create some policies for fathers. When their spouse had a kid, they got some of the same benefits that women got. We were able to put together some policies if you adopted a child. So some very unique situations that we were able to come up and create some policies just to make things a little bit better and make people want to stay.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. One of the other things that I heard you say, right, is you know you, as you were exiting your tenure in the military, you explored coaching and you went and the pandemic hit you got, you went through your program to get certification and going through those programs because I went through a program as well right, it's a lot of deep, deep diving, digging, self-reflection, type things, right. So, going through that process, what did you learn about the past version of you going through the military?

Speaker 2:

So I'm going to say there wasn't really a past version of me going through the military. You know, I always like to look at things from a whole person standpoint and a lot of some of the things I talk to my clients about. Why are you making yourself two people, Right? You feel like you're this one person at work and then when you come home you're a completely different person, Right, and a lot of times the military feel that way You're one person in uniform and you're a different person. You know that wasn't me. I felt like I was the same person all the time, but what I learned about myself after I retired was like I felt like I was authentic.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Because I didn't have to like oh, I got to find myself. I didn't have to do that. It was just like OK, I'm just in different clothing now. It was a little bit challenging going through the closet. I had to figure out things to wear, but when you're in the military you have a uniform that you always know where you're going to put on. So for me it was just literally about changing from the uniform into civilian attire and just do what I love doing, and that is helping people.

Speaker 1:

That's great. So tell us, take us through your coaching journey now. You came out, you started your business, you got certified. What's that journey looking like for you now, and who are the clients that you serve?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so I first, when I started, I dabbled mostly with consulting. Leadership is my thing, so I did a little bit of leadership, consulting, going and helping organizations, just really figure out, like, do you have the best structure in place? I did that. Figure out like, do you have the best structure in place? I did that and while I was doing the certification piece, you know, I was just like, okay, let me like start dabbling, cause you know we all have to get those hours Right. So I was like, hey, let me start with some pro bono stuff. So I started doing the pro bono with some of those companies and found like, yes, this is definitely what I want to do and I'll share with you, mo, when I was in the military, I had my job was a people leader and I never thought that I would be able to find something that made me as happy after I retired.

Speaker 2:

But I'm so glad to say that was coaching for me, that same joy that I got out of that people job that I had in the military. I get that out of coaching and I will share with you. You know just started dabbling into coaching and just building that clientele. It was a challenge. You know, like everybody when they first started trying to get those claims, it can be challenging right they always tell you, the biggest compliment is the word of mouth and that really solidified things for me.

Speaker 2:

You know a couple of early clients referred some people to me and you know it just sort of kind of took off from there and I absolutely loved it. I do some government contracts and that door is always open. I love that piece of it. But I did want to make sure I didn't box myself in one particular industry. So I do government, I do corporate, I do nonprofits, so I like to really spread the wealth. And then I went with one other organization that targeted college students when I started coaching for them, because I felt like that was so unique. We really targeted the junior senior level of students and really helped prepare them to be able to enter into the job market. And when I tell you what an experience that was, it was fascinating, it was just so rewarding and I'm so glad that I took the opportunity to do that.

Speaker 1:

I can relate to that because I was an adjunct professor for about 16 years. The aspect of it that I enjoyed the most was the mentorship piece component of it right Hanging out with students after class, giving them insights, asking them a lot of powerful questions to make them think and ponder on what their next move is going to be. I mean that was really fun for me and then that really helped me set the stage to take those next steps to getting my coaching certification, because through the mentoring process and working with students, I didn't really have a methodological approach in how I can get them from point A to point Z. I was just giving them information and just helping the best way I think I can help.

Speaker 1:

But you know, with coaching, particularly going through a certification program, that's what they teach you. They teach you a systematic approach that you take in this industry in helping people self-discover what their goals and their insights are so that they can move forward and become a more confident being. And so that's why I'm like, really excited you know about you and your discovery for yourself and this role of coaching that you do. You also mentioned that you do executive and leadership coaching. I have my version in how I work with execs and leaders and the common language, fears and things that come up through my clients. I want to hear what are some of the common issues, barriers that leaders you work with face.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, I think, hands down. One of the challenges majority of my clients come to the table with is self-confidence. It sort of kind of surprised me at first, right, because I go you were in the C-suite, like what's going on? But I had to do a little self-reflection of myself right as I maneuvered through, you know, the military structure. The more senior I got, sometimes I felt like the less confidence that I had. And that's what I find sometimes in a lot of my C-suite clients. You know they feel like, okay, I have arrived and now I got to continue to produce at this level or even higher, and a lot of them are afraid of that. So just really working through like, okay, what is your fear? And nine times out of 10, that fear is simple it's a fear of failure.

Speaker 1:

Right so.

Speaker 2:

I ask the question name me one person that you know that's perfect. And then they go there's no perfect person. So why are you trying to make yourself perfect, right? Everybody fails at some point in their life. It's what you do with that failure that really matters. Do you learn from it and move on, or do you waddle in that failure and never be able to move forward? I have probably touched on 80 percent of my clients in that particular lane.

Speaker 1:

That's interesting because, right, when they're on the up and come up, they're so confident they're doing what they got to do to move the needle and they consistently advance, right. Yes, my curiosity comes from where did the shift happen? Right, you built to this point your success, you're doing your thing. All of a sudden, now you're carrying this worrisome type belief that you might fail. Right, and I help clients because I deal with the same conversations that you just said. Same conversations, but like, where did it shift? Why, now that you're at this level, you're afraid of failure? Where in the past, getting to this level, there was no fear of that? What was the shift for you? And what comes from that? The burnout. And they feel as though when you rise, you become more isolated too.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

And when you're isolated, you spend more time in your head. Absolutely Right. When you're more time in your head, sometimes our core values take a back seat. You're not thinking about that. It's the what ifs. That might happen, this might happen, blah, blah, blah. Judgment, judgment, judgment, limiting belief, assumption, assumption, assumption create this massive amount of worry that we carry that we might possibly fail. And because you're in your own head, because you've risen to the point where you don't have no one to have those conversations with, that's where the power of coaching comes in.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, you know. And then I think there's a little bit of that imposter syndrome that sometimes sneak in there. You know I share with you that like that sometimes sneak in there. You know, I share with you that like I don't know one person who hasn't suffered from imposter syndrome sometime. But sometimes you do that but it's not really faking it right. I say it's about learning, right? You gotta sometimes learn, even as you progress up into those positions. You're not going to know everything, so sometimes it's about taking a step back and learning something new or maybe relying on someone else to show you something different. So I always say just go and have an open mind and really focus and really dig deep. Do that self-reflection, because if you don't do that you may be missing something. Right If you don't do that self-reflection piece. But you got to be honest with yourself doing that self-reflection.

Speaker 1:

Yep, and then I would add to what you're saying, by getting the reps in the reps of continuing to develop your mindset, whatever that looks like for you and your endeavors. You got to continue to strengthen that. And sometimes, as we build towards our career endeavors and we arrive, we forget that piece. We need to forget that piece, right? Because we're distracted by all the meetings, the tasks that we need to take care of, and so our personal and professional development gets kind of put on the back burner a little bit, right. And then there's consequences of that because now there's more judgment, because you're in your own head, because you're not actively applying repetition to your mindset to develop, to continue to develop it. Yeah, because we're learning beings, we are always growing, our mind is always trying to learn and taking in new things, and when we pause that, for whatever reason, unintentional there's a consequence with that and sometimes that consequence is the level of fear that we start to carry around failure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then think about you know, I'm sure you know, with some of your clients we get to a certain level and we sort of kind of forget about ourselves. You know, you just mentioned professional development. I often ask my clients when was the last time you developed yourself professionally? And they go well, I did this for one of my direct reports. We're not talking about your direct report right now, talking about you.

Speaker 2:

It was a long time you invested in yourself and, I think, us as coaches. It is so important for us to go down that lane with our clients, like open the door and make them walk through it, put that question out there and make them answer it, cause they'll try and dodge it all day long and I go. Okay, it's been a while.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

What if you lost your job today? Right Right, you got a profession.

Speaker 1:

Because I also think pressure, like at that level that you're dealing with, you know we want results, we need ROI, right, and we need results right now. So I don't have time to develop, I got to do this, this, this and this. With that there's no boundaries for yourself. So, because now everyone else is taking your time and so when everyone is pulling you thin, absolutely there's no time for professional development because everyone else has your time. Well, what are you going to do to guard that for yourself? Right?

Speaker 1:

And we are in this society where negativity, negativity, negativity, negativity in our society and that contributes to our mindset as well. When we invest in professional and personal development for ourselves, there's more positivity to help offset some of the negative information that's coming in, and sometimes that's what we need, right? And so when I ask clients, you know, what are you doing to offset all of the negative environment? Not that everyone lives in a negative environment, but we can't deny that media, media, advertisements, it all creates some sort of subconscious negative context into our being. When you struggle with certain fears, I believe that you have to be intentional in how you overcome that, and it starts with professional and personal development and you just have to build it and frame it. That works best for you. But if you're never doing that, the fear gets stronger and stronger, whatever that looks like. The limiting belief gets stronger and stronger. The assumptions get stronger and stronger. What are your thoughts about it?

Speaker 2:

I agree. I think when people look at professional development in anything, they think of the, maybe the brick and mortar. Oh, I got to go back to school, I got to like, up my degree level or whatever. But I tell people, development is so much more than that, right, development can be anything. It could be learning from someone already in the workplace, it could be a certification or a certificate, it could be going back in a higher educational level.

Speaker 2:

But you know, I tell people to really be broad about development, right, because it can be so many things. It could easily be working side by side with the CEO, like shadowing somebody. So you know, I get people to really just explore the word development, right, but let's just really explore that. And I go. If I would say, hey, mo, I want you to do some professional development, what does that look like to you? Right, and I just send them out there, right? Or I go, I'm your boss and I say I have $10,000 that I'm going to give you for development. What would you do with it? Right, you know? So just getting them to see the realm of possibilities when it comes to development, I think is so important, because people are so rooted in the traditional definition of the word.

Speaker 1:

Right. I'm glad you brought that up, because when I ask my clients, what are you doing for professional development, the first thing that they think of is a training that they have not taken, that they mean to take. And you're right, development is so much more than that. Like what podcast are you listening to? What books are you reading Right? What meditation activities are you incorporating into your mindset? All of those type of things could be development, right. And then reflection is developmental opportunities taking a walk and as you go on a 15, 20-minute walk, isolate yourself to self-reflect and think about what's next and things like that, right, and those ideas that you get. How do you expand it? All of that is part of self-development. But you're right People put it in this box that I have to enroll in a class. I don't have eight hours in a day to go to a training. It's so much more than just that.

Speaker 2:

And how many times, mo, have you gotten that new client who goes well, I really don't know what this coaching thing is about. I really don't think I need it, you know. But I always say just give me this one session, that's all I ask. Give me this one session, and then we'll go from there and by the end of that first session they're going I'm all in, I'm all in, you know. So just getting them to see the possibilities of it, right? So that has happened to me so many times. Development comes in so many ways and we all need development, regardless of what stage we are in our lives or careers.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. The common phrase that I hear from my clients is damn you, mo, you're in my head. How do you know this stuff? I mean, you just bring so much wisdom. That's the common response. Because you know us as coaches, right, the great thing that we do. We create awareness for our clients through powerful questions that we ask, Right. And then, through my experience with my clients, they realize, like damn, I've been in my head, damn you know in a good way, though.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I had a client recently. I had worked with her trying to get a promotion and every time she felt like she got close they were going like oh, you know, we're doing a freeze, we're not doing any more promotion. And that happened like for almost like a year. And of course, you know, her session had ran out. And at the beginning of this year I get this message that says Dee, we did it, I got the promotion. I love how she said we did it.

Speaker 2:

I didn't do anything but coach her. Right, she did all the hard work, but her sharing that it was, you know we. You know that as a coach, that makes you feel good, like all of the things that you set this person up with. You know they were. And she, she came to the table. She was a little reluctant about coaching, but she came like I'm going to give this a try. And she kept coming back, you know. So I was like this is a good thing. I was so happy to see her. That growth. When your clients excel, we excel as well. So that just makes us go like, yeah, this is definitely what I was meant to do.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

And another thing I want to throw into across the board, whether it's an exact C-suite type leader, first time leader, even a person that's just a career professional, a lot of times when they experience certain inner barriers and challenges, they feel in those moments there's no choice, they have no choice, and that strengthens the fear and the limiting belief.

Speaker 1:

And I think what we do to help them through that, we help them discover the possibilities and regaining their power of choice. And when they self-discover that they have choice in their particular situation, of what they're dealing with, and they make a choice, whatever that is, they naturally feel better, absolutely, and they build upon it. And then that's where the confidence comes, that's where the shift starts to happen and that's where I'm most grateful in being able to help clients, because across the board, across the board, all the conversations that I have with so many different leaders in the moment of the situation, nine out of 10 times it has to do with them feeling like they have no choice in this situation and they have to accept it. And that is so, not true. That is so not true. And when you have the ability and the space to talk it out, get it out of your head, you start to see the possibilities all around you and you make a decision, and that's where we get our power back.

Speaker 2:

I agree. I agree. I like to be able to show that leader that they have the capacity for greatness. Show that leader that they have the capacity for greatness, regardless of what. The situation is Right. So yeah, I get it, yep.

Speaker 1:

So what's next for you?

Speaker 2:

Well, I am currently on the downside of my PhD. I am writing my dissertation, and what a challenge it has been. So much, you know, we talk about development here. I am continuing to develop myself. You know I did 33 years in the military, but it was a personal goal to become Dr D, so I'm working on that. When I finish, my desire is to actually write a book focused on leadership. You know we talked about how you can show your leadership regardless of where you lie in the organization, so that's going to be my focus.

Speaker 1:

Well, congratulations on moving toward your dissertation and becoming Dr D. I'm excited for you. How can my guests find you?

Speaker 2:

You can find me. My main living space is LinkedIn, so I live on LinkedIn. I'm constantly posting. You will see my dissertation journey all across LinkedIn, so people can find me on LinkedIn. You can also find me on Instagram at IamCoachD. So those are my two main platforms.

Speaker 1:

Any lasting thoughts, words, nuggets that you would like to leave the audience with.

Speaker 2:

You know, it's just really about giving back. I love being a coach, I love what I do. Like I said, I love helping people. My why is to empower others to achieve their goal. I know that and I hope that I am living that every day when I'm coaching, going to the sessions, just helping them realize that if you have a goal, you can achieve it with that strategy. So, yeah, everybody needs a coach. It doesn't matter where you fall out on the organizational chart.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. I'm there. Whatever you need, I got you. I appreciate you. I enjoyed today's conversation. You are amazing, you're outstanding and please got to come back.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

After you become Dr D, I got to bring you back.

Speaker 2:

I will definitely be what I would love to come back, thank you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for joining me in this episode of let's Think About it. Your time and attention are greatly appreciated. If you found value in today's discussion, I encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Remember, the journey of self-improvement is ongoing and I'm here to support you every step of the way. Connect with me on social media for updates and insights. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook, at Coach Mo, coaching or LinkedIn, at Maurice Mabry, or visit my website at mauricemabrycom for exclusive content. Until next time, keep reflecting, keep growing and, most importantly, keep believing in yourself. Remember, the most effective way to do it is to do it Together. We're making incredible strides toward a better and more empowered you, so thank you, and I'll see you in our next episode.