Let's Think About It Podcast

Episode 52: How Values-Based Leadership Builds Emotional Armor

• Morice Mabry • Season 2 • Episode 52

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Summary

What if leadership wasn't about having all the answers—but asking better questions? In this compelling conversation, Coach Mo sits down with executive coach Ted Whetstone to unpack how leaders can evolve from command-and-control to curiosity-driven influence. Drawing from decades in consulting and coaching, Ted shares how confronting personal and organizational fear is the key to unlocking transformation. The episode explores the power of courageous conversations, the trap of over-reliance on logic, and why reconnecting to core values is essential armor in times of chaos. Whether you're a seasoned executive or an aspiring leader, this episode offers a fresh take on leadership development, executive coaching, and the mindset shifts that make high-performing teams possible.

Key Takeaways

  • Curiosity Over Control: Shifting from having the answers to asking the right questions is what drives modern leadership.
  • Put On Your Armor: Knowing your core values acts as emotional armor when burnout, fear, or doubt hits.
  • From Consulting to Coaching: Ted explains the shift from problem-solving for others to helping clients access their own wisdom.
  • Courageous Conversations Create Breakthroughs: The smallest acts of vulnerability can repair years of relational tension in leadership.
  • Interrupt the Inner Critic: Curiosity is an antidote to fear—and a powerful tool to silence self-doubt.




Speaker 1:

Welcome to the let's Think About it podcast, where we embark on a journey of thoughtfulness and personal growth.

Speaker 1:

I'm your host, Coach Mo, and I'm here to guide you through thought-promoting discussions that will inspire you to unlock your full potential. In each episode, we'll explore a wide range of topics, from self-discovery and mindfulness to goal-setting and achieving success. Together, we'll challenge conventional thinking and dive deep into the realms of possibility. Whether you're looking to find clarity in your personal or professional life, or seeking strategies to overcome obstacles, this podcast is your go-to source for insightful conversations and practical advice. So find a comfortable spot, chill and let's embark on this journey of self-improvement together. Remember, the power of transformation lies within you, and together we'll uncover the tools and insights you need to make it happen. So let's dive in. Welcome to another episode of the let's Think About it podcast. I'm your host, Coach Mo, and I'm here with another amazing guest. It's my man, Ted Whetstone. What's up, T? Hey, Big Mo, good to see you. How you doing, Doing great. So the first question I ask is where are you checking in from? Is where are you checking in from?

Speaker 2:

I live in Los Angeles, now in Santa Monica and it's a hard place to be.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you guys just came out of a terrible situation with the fires, but I'm assuming family and all of that was safe during that time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I appreciate it, I'm good, but I was literally two miles from the fires and it is one of those things I think in life it's when it's far enough away it's hard to relate to. It's not till it gets two miles from you that you start to think, wow, that's close. And then, of course you. I consistently keep meeting new people that have been affected by it in different ways. So it's probably a metaphor for us for our conversation today when things seem far away, we don't want to deal with them. Yeah, so in a way, confrontation is a gift to remind us what it is we want.

Speaker 1:

And the recovery process is going good.

Speaker 2:

For me, for the area, for the economy, all that sort of has, but for those individuals that are just, it's wonderful that the community tries to absorb and support those individuals. It's just unfathomable but tells us in life nothing's permanent and so we have to be in the flow, whether we like it or not.

Speaker 1:

Tell my audience who you are, what you do and the type of value you bring.

Speaker 2:

I, like you, am a coach committed to helping others achieve their dreams and goals, whether it be in life or business. And it's funny, of course that's what I'm doing, because that's what I wanted. Didn't know it, but, boy, if I had someone like me, it would have been a great thing. So I stepped into coaching after years of consulting work to large corporations, which was very left brain, very problem solving and fulfilled me for a long time of my career, until it didn't. And I was asking these companies like okay, I see, we're changing process and all this kind of stuff to make things better, more efficient. And I was like what about the people? Right, and one of the things I did learn in my consulting career that I, of course, brought to coaching is too often leaders try to figure it out themselves.

Speaker 1:

I know it all yeah, it's me. I have to fix it for everybody, because I'm the leader, I'm making all the big bucks.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's either, to your point, either out of ego which we have those and or those that feel like I have to look, like I know what I'm doing and so I can't let them see me sweat. Both are a mistake, because I like to say we have two ears and one mouth. Use them in that proportion, and I think our best leaders do. When you go out and ask people, get their input, two things happen. One, you get better ideas and two, the people feel like they were part of the creation of whatever solution you come up with. They're involved and supportive and they're part of the idea. And the same with coaching leaders and organizations. I always say leaders don't just lead others. Leaders cause leaders, and that happens to the questioning dialogue that, of course, you also are proficient in.

Speaker 1:

Let's take a step back. How did you enter the scope of consulting in the first place? What brought you down that path?

Speaker 2:

I appreciate it. I'd love to ask you the same because I think we eventually I'm almost 60, we become who we are and so I could say, through a lot of stumbling and errors and discoveries, I got to where I was and I almost think it was being called to become who I am. I've always been, didn't know that it looked like coaching and other things that I'm up to, but technically I started a career in sales, business, marketing, selling, and that was fun until I burned out in corporate. Then it was luckily I'd made some money so I had some time to be able to think what do I really want to do? So I ended up being consulting to small businesses because I found the leader like when I was a young leader they don't have anyone to talk to and the same fear thing whether we are a solopreneur, a small business leader or a large business, it's the same thing. Because maybe my technical background I have an engineering background I would like to go into problem solving mode and to help ameliorate pain. Right, I just feel that and I want to jump in there to help. So I started consulting with a couple organizations, helping them grow their business. That provided some, obviously, feedback and revenue.

Speaker 2:

But then it wasn't until I plugged into large organizations. Toyota was a big client that I started doing what I call change management. Toyota was a big client that I started doing what I call change management, and now we had organizations that had been doing something for 10, 15, 20 years. They know they need to change, but there's so much inertia and so they just know they don't want to be where they are. They didn't want to be somewhere else.

Speaker 2:

But often we just spend a little time on what we call the as is right, where are you, just to get clear, and then we help them get clear where they want to be. But then when we talk about getting there, that's where the consultant's job comes in. So it was 10% inspiration, 90% perspiration, whereas in coaching now it really is about helping the customer get clear again where are you, where do you want to be? Through questioning, helping them come to the best pathway to getting there and then moving along. So it all looks consistent in the rear view mirror, but when you're going forward it looks like career changes. It's all been a progression towards helping others get and become who they are and what they want to achieve.

Speaker 1:

So when did that shift happen for you though? So there's a couple of things I've heard right. The first thing, it was this physics engineering guru total tactic, approach to solving problems and everything. Approach to solving problems and everything. You jump to the consulting side and then you shift it to the coaching side.

Speaker 2:

Connect all of that for us we only have 30 minutes. I think for me it was just coming up against. This isn't working for me.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

You push, you justify something because you're making money and maybe there's some stimulation and I'm learning. We like to think we're making a difference. All kinds of these things give us feedback that I'm adding value in some way. Until you start doing things for everyone else and they for me, it wasn't providing me a sense of purpose, fulfillment beyond getting a paycheck, getting something checked in a box, and it really was that sense of watching especially large organizations, not intentionally but by out of habit, seeing people as resources, things, functions, roles, and no longer really seeking to leverage the human in the resource. And I think that's what I related to seeing that I'm sure that that's why I responded that way, coaching is so funny. I thought at one point, people have told me, oh, you'd be a great coach. That way, coaching is so funny.

Speaker 2:

I thought at one point, people have told me, oh, you'd be a great coach and, of course, relevant to your sort of topic area. I thought, oh gosh, if I got paid to be a coach, then I'd have to really be good. You have to start with caring, and I do so. Often we don't see ourselves, we don't allow ourselves to see ourselves as others do. So for me it wasn't until I spoke to some coaches that I realized the big difference. And this was it. Consultants get paid for their recommendations, what comes out of their mouth, and they're busy being experts and know-it-alls and not really naturally being collaborative, because when I'm the important person in the room, it's about me. When I spoke to coaches, they were incredibly generous in the first place and I was just as a community. It was like these are my people and then it is a natural giving sense.

Speaker 1:

Yep, that's awesome, man. That's awesome. I think I remember when I was first exposed to coaching and I was going through some hardship in my life. I just got back from celebrating my first year anniversary with my wife and I got the pink slip. I got the pink slip coming back from vacation. I was working for a nonprofit organization and the excuse was we can't afford the executive team, no more. So we got to. We don't have the funding to fund your position anymore. Pink slip through my life.

Speaker 1:

I'm a former athlete. I work hard, I'm dedicated, I have integrity, I'm professional. How dare you say I'm not good enough? It wasn't personal them saying I'm not good enough, it's just we don't have the funding to fund your position. But, as any human being, you take that personal. You take I took that very personal, yes.

Speaker 1:

And I was down in the dumps. I carried a lot of self-pity. I carried why? Why is this happening to me? This isn't fair.

Speaker 1:

I don't even remember how I met this coach, but she gets introduced to me, she's trying to coach me and this goes back to your point because at that moment in my life I wasn't willing to invest in myself. And so she says you know what? I'll coach you for free. I need to build up my coaching practice anyway. This is how giving coaches are. And so she just started working with me and I'm like, oh my goodness, she revived me. I got back into the swing of things. The whole nine right Long story short.

Speaker 1:

I told her I'm going to do what you're doing because it's powerful and you changed me and that's the power of what we do for organizations and people and helping the organization move forward and focusing more on the people, because there's so much value in igniting light bulbs in people and they have a reason and understanding of what's in it for me, as they're thinking what's in it for me and they understand that and they have a clear picture of that man. They're unstoppable. And us as coaches, we help them find. That's why we're impactful.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, man, that's such a beautiful thing. Connected to you. She helped you connect to you. Exactly that's where it happened. So she didn't do. You know what I mean. Like we tend to think, oh, I can't do it without a coach. The coach helps us figure out again who we are, so that, when we know ourselves, look out and give you something from the outside that you know you can't get from the inside. And standing for that.

Speaker 1:

Help us understand this. What specifically is Ted's approach and how do you help your clients?

Speaker 2:

I think we're all at work on ourselves, ultimately, and not on myself, but at being myself.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

And what I'm interested and intrigued about one I think humans are way smarter than we allow ourselves to be right Cause we wanted to fit in. As kids, we just want to get, and we at some point, we forgot to think for ourselves. Right, how do you think about things? What's important to you? So, when we help people understand their values, it's not that we have the five words on a piece of paper, it's that we reconnect to that part of us that evolved through all of our life experiences. That not only tells us about who we are and, to your point, about integrity and discipline and those things that A you may or may not have had, naturally, but you certainly developed through your work, through training and through sports.

Speaker 2:

But also I like to ask people this sounds corny, but what's the change in the world you want to see as a result of you having been and usually makes them turn their head what? But if you ask someone what's your passion, we can answer and forgive my language, but I'll ask someone what pisses you off, what's not okay in the world that you want to see corrected? Now people get real clear, and so what I like to do is help them. Look at what's the ill, that really gets them fired up and that actually helps inform you what you are actually for, that passion comes out of. And so, whatever the issues and I think when people find that sense of again the word sounds like purpose but it really is that thing that you are for Then we have a context to talk about your management and all the rest. We don't have that ultimate sense of self and kind of the change we want to be and see. It's stuff, it's tactics.

Speaker 1:

So that's where because that's the way I am- I'm listening to you talk and it makes 1000% sense. I'm listening to, like leaders, that that I help and I help them put on their armor, and they wear this armor and what that armor is to protect them from the chaos outside. And how do we build up that armor? My approach is let's zoom in on those values, your core values, because when the chaos hits us, typically our armor is off, because what I mean by that is we're not zoomed in on our values and we're distracted away from them.

Speaker 1:

And when you're distracted away from your values, you're vulnerable and susceptible to the chaos around us. And the chaos comes in so many different forms Burnout, fear, different forms, burnout, fear, right, mistrust all of this stuff right. But when you have your armor on and you're grounded and know what your non-negotiable values are, it's hard to sway away from that. And in those pivotal moments when the chaos is coming, you're standing strong and tall and confident, with power of choice and helping people have the self-awareness of when the chaos comes, man, put your armor on and when you have the awareness to be able to do that, you diminish some of the chaos that's trying to come into your being.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And that's the power that us, you and I, bring to our clients.

Speaker 2:

A big hell. Yes. The part that just frustrates me about human beings, and me as one of them, is that today I can have my armor on. I can be clear as hell who I am, what I'm about. Let's go Tomorrow. I might forget who the hell that person was. You lose a little sleep, something happens here and suddenly. So I think it's the yes, and what you said is that we have to recognize when there's a trigger. We feel fear, we feel whatever. It is then to be trained, to train ourselves that, ah, I'm feeling that trigger. Let me put on my armor. So I have a total yes to your situation. The other is also to be preventative, to continually, every day, remind ourselves, before the stuff hits, who we are Intentions.

Speaker 2:

That doesn't seem to be the way. So there's no magic bullet. It's just the same discipline you talked about to be an athlete. It's not like you work out and then you're done. You got to keep working out and, rather than make it sound like work, it really is just a gift. Just to just relish. How much do we give ourselves time? We are always giving self. We give time to everyone else. Everything else is the gift to sit down with yourself, and I don't want to be corny, but love yourself, celebrate yourself, know yourself and lead yourself.

Speaker 1:

What's that? Lead yourself. Yes, that's so powerful. I'm teaching my daughter that One of the questions that I ask her all the time.

Speaker 1:

I say and we have this little routine she's 11. But up until this point, I've been asking her this question ever since she was five. What's a leader? And she'll say somebody who leads somebody. I said who do you lead? Myself, I said why? To make better decisions and choices. And then I'll say what's accountability To do what you say you're going to do. And then I'll say what you're going to be accountable for today. And then she'll rattle off my schoolwork, play with my friends, just some random stuff that she's going to be accountable to.

Speaker 1:

But I drilled that in her head and so we would go maybe a couple of months without me even asking the question. Then I ask her Momo, I call her Momo, her name's Mariah, she's a little Mo. What's a leader? And she spits it out. It spits it out and then when certain things happen at school right then get a higher score, things like that, whatever. I tie it back to leadership. So I don't know how I got on this subject and bringing this example up. Got on this subject and bringing this example up, but it's powerful in helping people understand leading self. Yeah, the most important thing that you can do in life is how you navigate yourself, and that includes the inner critic, the noise. How do we hone that in so you can effectively lead ourselves?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I love that man Again. Either one of two worlds could exist in each, it would be great One everybody has a coach and I'm not just saying because we're coaches, maybe everyone should have a therapist, because it's hard to do to yourself sometimes, because we can cut ourselves out or a world where we've gotten so good at becoming aware and managing ourselves that you have agency and competency and you're committed to growing, which is why it sometimes helps to work with someone that's not you, right, because they can help you stretch. There's something about what you said I wanted to comment, and let me see if I can pull it back. I'm not going to get it. Leadership oh yes, it is. I think of this.

Speaker 2:

I'm a little bit of a philosopher, but it's like nothing happens without thinking in advance, and this is what I mean. You're probably familiar with the typical belief cycle. We believe things it's going to be sunny tomorrow, so I'm going to get to bed by nine so I can get up early and go for a run but our beliefs give us our thoughts. Typically, those thoughts give us our feelings, which gives us our behaviors, gives us our actions, support beliefs. But the point is it all starts with the one thing that humans do that a lot of other creatures probably don't is forward project. We create the future in our minds.

Speaker 2:

And, to your point about leadership in the moment, all those leadership principles being authentic, being present, being true to your values right, there's that and there's that creating the space for you to live into and for others to live into. So part of leadership is that self-management and management of others. And then it's causing and creating the future, the envelope that people are going to expand into, pausing and creating the future, the envelope that people are going to expand into, and I think that's what leaders are also to set a vision, to inspire people to make things better. So it's a yes, and in leadership, it's the is and the to be.

Speaker 1:

What demographics of clients you work with, since you've transitioned from consulting to coaching.

Speaker 2:

It's more that, and it's not just right versus left, it's that whole brain thinking and so much of our and of course, my engineering training and all the rest this goes back to I think it was Descartes this whole idea of reductionist thinking, and it's the same thing we see in the organ silos and seeing things in these. It's great for making progress in a narrow domain. We've just done amazing things because of that.

Speaker 2:

And unfortunately, the masculine business model has been one where, you know, men tend to have that very linear approach and I think that is what's missing in leadership today. It's, too, not male, masculine in the sense of that reductionist, logical, rational sort of thinking. That's great, but without the intuitive behavior, relational thinking, it gets us in a lot of the trouble we have today. So my answer is it's more men, it is older men 40, 50, 60, because I tend to work with higher leaders and bigger organizations and I really want to work with more. I like to work with change agents and I think you get that from people who might be a little younger, maybe 30, 40s who want to make the world different, and I don't care if it's male, female, white, black, you name it. It's the psychographic of the heart of someone who wants to make the world a better place, and I call them world leaders.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

Because it's not just about their community or even their company. We need to think about the whole and at some point, if we don't think about the whole planet, we'll have a win in one place and a loss in another, and that's a net loss.

Speaker 1:

And, through your experience, what's been the common theme since you switched over to coaching. It's been that common theme of helping your clients with problems, so to speak, versus what was the common theme and what you was dealing with on the consulting side.

Speaker 2:

I think it's where we started our conversation. There was a mindset that used to work 20 years ago. It's a very different world now, where leaders could have been managers. Right, it was getting things done, get to the goalposts, tasks, strategy, leadership. Today, I think, in a world that's highly dynamic, complex, interconnected, moving fast, it's got to be leadership of hearts as much as minds, and by empowering leadership throughout the organization, people now know how to think almost like a herd mentality or a hive mentality than individualistic, which again has, I think, been taught in Western culture, I think maybe in Eastern cultures they're like yeah, we've been talking about this for some time.

Speaker 2:

So I guess what I would say what clients are looking for is looking to be more effective, to have their teams perform better. What we end up working on is their idea about how to leverage effectiveness. And when they realize they've been ignoring that human part and they talk to their people and act at a heart level and they're vulnerable, it's a completely different experience. It's almost working less and achieving more. It takes a little longer to actually engage people, invite them into the leadership process right, so they can be, but it pays off five tenfold over the mid and long term and that's the big shift. I think organizations are still resisting because we ultimately come from a quarterly performance perspective and it keeps pushing us back in that short term thinking and that's the big meta problem I see.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm listening to you and what's coming up for me is with clients. Let's just say who's you know 50s, 60s who has a lot of experience in the game, rigid on change. How do you typically help them overcome that fear of change, or that fear of I'm losing a step, or that fear of what? Are people thinking about me as a manager or as their boss? Or the fear of what if I'm not successful? What's your approach in that?

Speaker 2:

Well, to take it back to what you're about with your clients and what we're discussing one, values that you talked knowing who you are and the second is courageous conversations. Courage doesn't mean not having fear. It means having the fear and acting anyway. Except that when you're clear on your values and what you truly want, it then just becomes the thing to do. And that's amazing. I was working with a male client probably 50, 60-ish has a number two in his department, a woman, and he keeps talking about relationship challenges and whatnot. And I can see it's because she's frustrated that he won't show who he is right, and not only that he knows that or not. And the encouragement was to have a conversation with her and not be over here with him, to be over there with the other person. What are they experiencing, what are they seeing, what are they thinking and feeling? And when he did that, he says I don't know what words I was saying, but we came out of that conversation completely different than anything we've done in the last 15, 20 years.

Speaker 1:

You helped him be curious.

Speaker 2:

Good word.

Speaker 1:

You helped him be more curious about what the other person's dynamics were.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, get out of your head and you won't have fear. You have curiosity. It's not about youics. Yeah, get out of your head and you won't have fear. You have curiosity. It's not about you anymore. Exactly Good Thanks, mo.

Speaker 1:

I'm just demonstrating the value of what we do. This is what we do and that garbage, that punk ass inner critic, gets in our way yeah gets in the way, and when we show up to help you be more curious, you're actually distracted away from the inner critic, because being curious is opening your mind to all possibilities in that moment. Yeah, I'm sorry, we had to.

Speaker 2:

How's that going?

Speaker 1:

Man, I really do appreciate this conversation today. I just love talking to other professional coaches because we get it and we understand it and we love it. More importantly, how can people find you?

Speaker 2:

My name tedwhetstonecom.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and then, what final thoughts would you like to leave our audience with?

Speaker 2:

So let's have that conversation. If anyone just heard this, there's someone that you want to reach out to. You want to tell them how great you see them, because they may not see them themselves. Someone who is on their path, who has the potential. But be in community and conversation, because me speaking to you today helps me right. Keep the conversation alive. What you want, what you're for, what you want for others, and work with those people. Make sure they are core to your community, because that's going to support you all the way.

Speaker 1:

There it is my man, Ted Whetstone.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for who you are and what you're up to. I just commend you and I really appreciate being here with you and your audience what you're up to.

Speaker 1:

I just commend you and I really appreciate being here with you and your audience Absolutely. Thank you for joining me in this episode of let's Think About it. Your time and attention are greatly appreciated. If you found value in today's discussion, I encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Remember, the journey of self-improvement is ongoing and I'm here to support you every step of the way. Connect with me on social media for updates and insights. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook at Coach Mo Coaching, or LinkedIn at Maurice Mabry, or visit my website at mauricemabrycom for exclusive content. At mauricemabrycom for exclusive content. Until next time, keep reflecting, keep growing and, most importantly, keep believing in yourself. Remember, the most effective way to do it is to do it Together. We're making incredible strides toward a better and more empowered you. So thank you and I'll see you in our next episode.