Let's Think About It Podcast

Facing Career Fears: How to Embrace Change and Pivot with Purpose

• Morice Mabry • Season 2 • Episode 40

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🎢 After a career rollercoaster ride that included two restructures, Michelle Schafer found her true calling in career coaching. 🌟 Discover how her transition from the financial sector to the not-for-profit world was driven by a deep commitment to community service and volunteering. ❤️ Michelle shares her inspiring journey, highlighting the importance of aligning personal values with those of an organization to achieve true job satisfaction. 💼✨ Her story is a powerful reminder of the courage it takes to pivot professionally and the fulfillment that comes from understanding your "why." 💪

😨 Facing fears head-on, especially when stepping away from the security of a stable job, can feel overwhelming. Michelle opens up about her initial apprehensions and the strategies that helped her embrace entrepreneurship. 🌱 From networking with experienced coaches to building a strong foundation within an organization before going solo, Michelle emphasizes the significance of self-belief and resourcefulness. 🚀 Her insights are invaluable for anyone considering a career change, especially those venturing into coaching or entrepreneurship. 💡📈

🌍 In a world of constant change, where organizational shifts can lead to job insecurity, Michelle offers a beacon of hope. 🕊️ She explores the empowerment found in making career choices that resonate with personal beliefs and values. 📖 Through real-life success stories—like a restaurant owner transitioning to senior project manager—Michelle illustrates the transformative power of identifying transferable skills and exploring new paths. 🔄 Her upcoming book, Cultivating Career Growth: Navigating Transitions with Purpose, promises to be a helpful resource for those seeking guidance. 📚 Michelle leaves listeners with actionable steps and encouragement, reassuring them that with the right mindset and support, fulfilling career transitions are within reach. 🌈🙌

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the let's Think About it podcast, where we embark on a journey of thoughtfulness and personal growth. I'm your host, Coach Mo, and I'm here to guide you through thought-promoting discussions that will inspire you to unlock your full potential. In each episode, we'll explore a wide range of topics, from self-discovery and mindfulness to goal-setting and achieving success. Together, we'll challenge conventional thinking and dive deep into the realms of possibility. Whether you're looking to find clarity in your personal or professional life, or seeking strategies to overcome obstacles, this podcast is your go-to source for insightful conversations and practical advice. So find a comfortable spot, chill and let's embark on this journey of self-improvement together. Remember, the power of transformation lies within you, and together we'll uncover the tools and insights you need to make it happen. So let's dive in. Welcome to another episode of the let's Think About it podcast. I'm your host, Coach Mo, and I'm here with another amazing guest. This time we have Michelle Schaefer. Michelle, what's up?

Speaker 2:

Mo, how's it going?

Speaker 1:

It's going great. It's going great. I'm so happy that you're here. The last time we talked there was a lot of synergy. But before we get into our conversation, where are you checking in from around the country?

Speaker 2:

So I am calling in from Ottawa, Canada, where today it's freezing cold. It's not the same case for you, I know.

Speaker 1:

Canada. Oh, my goodness, it's got to be cold. You're approaching that very cold winter right.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yes, yeah, Today. Actually, it felt like minus 26 degrees Celsius this morning, and so there is ice. If you like to ice skate, this is where you go. In fact, in Ottawa we have a canal that is over 15 kilometers long, that, when it's really cold, it freezes, and it's the world's largest skating rink. So for all of your listeners, if you didn't know, that Ottawa, canada, is the home of the world's largest skating rink. You know now, and this thing has been open and I've been skating just about every morning. It's been fabulous.

Speaker 1:

It sounds great, but I want to know part of it.

Speaker 2:

That's okay, mo, I'm okay with that.

Speaker 1:

I don't do well in all the heat either. I'm that in-between guy. That's why I like California, but something that does get really hot. We hit triple digits quite often and I don't do well in the heat either. But enough about that, enough about that. Tell my audience who you are and what you do.

Speaker 2:

For sure. So I'm a career coach. I specialize in career transition and leadership development, and I help individuals navigate career transitions with confidence to help them find work that energizes them for companies that believe what they believe in, and I like to think of that as my why Like. Why am I a career coach? Because I really do believe that people everywhere are entitled and have the right to be able to find work that lights them up, and also that they can work for an organization that has the same values as them, and I find like when those two things come together, people are more fulfilled. People have that energy, they're proud about their work, they talk about their work with other people, and I want to help people find that. So I actually work with them on a whole system to help them find work that they really love.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome, but what's resonating with me? You said the why? Yes, take me through me. You said the why Take me through. How did you discover the why for yourself and getting into this line of work?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that is such a great question. It's funny because, you know, as a coach, I love hearing about the stories of other people. I know you do as well, and I have a story of my own too. So my story what led me to coaching was actually being restructured, not just once, but twice over the course of my career. So my role was eliminated. I was thrust into the job market because of different business decisions and organizational changes, and I think it's funny that restructuring led me to coaching and that's what I help individuals with. Now.

Speaker 2:

Some of the clients I work with are ones who have lost their jobs, and so when I was restructured the first time, I realized that I didn't want to stay in the kind of work that I was in. I was actually with a large national bank for 18 years, like from high school plus 18 years and when I lost my job it was really unsettling because I'd been with the same organization for 18 years. I never had to like network for work, I never really had to interview because people knew me and my reputation was able to carry me. But I found myself in like uncertain, unstable territory where I needed to navigate a big career transition and I knew I didn't want to stay in financial services. I knew I wanted to get into not-for-profit. I've been a volunteer like probably since the age of my early teens. I'm going to credit my parents for instilling a very strong commitment to the community with myself and my brother. And when I reinvented myself the first time I wanted to do something different, but I didn't really know how I was going to get there. I had the support of a coach, so I was really grateful. The organization that did eliminate my position gave me a coach to work with, and so I learned a lot about how to navigate a career transition, how to process those really tricky emotions, those limiting beliefs that stand in our way, and develop some strategies to help me find my next job. And that led me into not-for-profit.

Speaker 2:

I was working then for like a large national cancer organization and, about five years into that particular role, a friend of mine who is a coach, a very good friend of mine, my friend Val she just said something like just offhand one day. She said I never understood why you didn't get into coaching as a career path and at the time I said, ah, I love what I'm doing, like I'm working with these volunteers who all support people living with cancer, and for different reasons. I had negotiated a five day a week job to three days so I could be at home with my kids when they were young. So at the time I said why would I wanna do anything different? I love my job, I love the people I work with.

Speaker 2:

But then restructure number two hit. My role at the cancer organization was eliminated too, and I remembered what she said, even though there was probably a period of a year and a half from the time that she planted that seed to the time that I consciously thought about it again and I did remember what she said about coaching and it made me realize. You know, I've actually been coaching in different roles, like off the corner of my desk. It was always a piece of my job, and with the second job elimination, it just made me think maybe this is the universe telling me that I should follow this path, that I should at least investigate it and see if it's for me, and that's what really led me to do something about it.

Speaker 2:

I started talking to coaches about why they coach, the joys of it, the challenges of it, how they coach.

Speaker 2:

I talked to other career coaches, leadership coaches parenting coaches, financial coaches like health and wellness coaches, marriage coaches, like all different types and I realized, a this is something I want to do and, b I realized I wanted to apply coaching in the career space because I was given a coach and I know what that experience was like and how awesome it would be to be able to help people who were in my circumstance.

Speaker 2:

So I got a certification, so I went and did some formal coach training and was eventually registered with the International Coaching Federation, which I know you are as well, mo ICF exactly, and I started my own practice and I just I haven't turned back. That was definitely the right move for me. But I joke with people that, like, I've been coaching now for almost 10 years and I joke that at age 46, which was almost 10 years ago now that I finally figured out what I was going to do for almost 10 years. And I joke that at age 46, which was almost 10 years ago now, that I finally figured out what I was going to do when I grew up and it's just the most fulfilling work and that's my story. It's a story of being restructured, getting really uncomfortable, going through career transition and remembering those planted seeds that eventually really led to somewhere. Very rewarding for me.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for sharing that. I want to take it a little deeper though. Yeah, I want to get into. Let's think about it. Ok, so you shared your experience from a macro perspective, and particularly the last job restructure. Ok, let's take a look at that. It happened the second time. What was the inner critic saying in those moments? What was the inner critic saying in those moments? How did the fear show up? And then how did you navigate that to get the confidence to propel forward?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's such a great question because when you touched on something right, there is like the fear and those limiting beliefs right, which can crop up any time that we're looking to make a change, any change in our life, Like we're talking right now in the context of career. But you know, anytime we make a change in our relationships or our friendships or something that we're deciding to do, those fears can crop up. And you're absolutely right. If I'm honest with myself and I take myself back to especially when that second restructure happened and I started to look into coaching, there was a lot of fear. There was a lot of uncertainty, because I had always worked for large national organizations. I had always had a secure salary, a benefits package, vacation time, all of those kinds of things. And here I was by looking into getting into coaching and following that as a career path.

Speaker 2:

What I was admitting to myself and accepting for myself is I am now looking into an entrepreneurial path. Yes, there are some larger coaching organizations, but most of the coaching is done independently or as part of like small, really boutique firms. So I needed to accept that if I was going to pursue coaching, there was a very good chance that I was going to be establishing myself as a sole business owner, as a sole proprietor, and that was really scary because of the there there is no certainty as an entrepreneur as there's no secure income. The income is very variable when you start off, like there's a period of time where maybe you're not even making anything at all or you're making very low income, and so I was afraid. I was afraid, first of all, am I making the right choice? Am I actually making the right decision? But I was also really had was afraid, first of all, am I making the right choice? Am I actually making the right decision? But I was also really had to think seriously about okay, how am I going to navigate this unstable income? And so what gave me the confidence?

Speaker 2:

There were a few things. One the first thing was when I was exploring coaching and I was talking to other coaches and, in essence, I was networking with other coaches. I needed to learn more. The last person that I did some networking with turned out to be the teacher for my first level of coaching certification. I didn't know of it then, but when I talked to her and I was asking her questions about why she got into coaching and all of what I was doing with other coaches. She said to me partway through the conversation, she looked at me and she said you don't need me to tell you that this is the right path. You actually already have the answers within you. And I sat there and I said you know what? I think you're right, Like I was looking for people to validate this choice of mine and the reality was I didn't need anybody to validate it.

Speaker 2:

I actually knew it, even though it was new and it was uncertain and a bit uncomfortable and was going to require a whole lot of work and time and energy, lots of investment. I did know so I'd say that was the first thing was hearing from people that, yeah, this I would be a good fit for that. So that made me feel more comfortable and confident in terms of the choice. The second thing that really helped me was at the time I was able to get into a small business, like a small business program that gets you started as an entrepreneur and you have access to a business consultant to help you with your business plan. You have access to people who help you with your website, with your accounting, like all the stuff that you need to know as an entrepreneur, like your pricing and like how do you market yourself, how do you talk about yourself. So I did engage with some experts that really helped me with that and they gave me a really solid foundation that I was able to build from. So, like, those two things together really helped me quite a lot.

Speaker 2:

And I would say the third thing was really engaging with the support that was around me, like family members, friends, other entrepreneurs that I knew that I could talk to and say, oh my gosh, did you feel like this when you first started?

Speaker 2:

And to be able to not only land all of those fears and concerns, but to be able to not only land all of those fears and concerns, but to be able to talk your way through them and to reframe those limiting beliefs and the limiting beliefs that told me I can't do this or I'm too old, Like 46 is too old to be starting something new. That's a limiting belief because you can start something new at any age. Some of my clients start like start their own business at age like 64. Like you don't, you don't have to wait, and so it was immensely valuable to work through all of that with other people that were encouraging. For me, it was about surrounding myself with positive energy and also surrounding myself with people that I could rely on, that I could get their input and their experience, and all of that really culminated to providing me with a really solid foundation to take those steps forward.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. I love how you really clarified and took us through that process and I want to share my experience. When I came through the coaching right yeah, most people that come through coaching they're coming out and they want to start a business, right, and I love your approach of what you did to create a foundation my approach was a little bit different, in a sense that I want to create a coaching foundation in the organization that I work for right, and doing that, it gave me the confidence to practice with clients which were the internal employees, and I've ultimately built a business within an organization and created my own position, built my own coaching team and that's what I do. I coach full time and manage the unit coaching and career development and it's direct parallel. So now, as I build Mabry Enterprises externally right, I have the confidence to do that because I built the experience and the foundation internally with the organization to create a win for them. Yeah, that was my focus when. What can I do to help elevate the leaders in this department Exactly?

Speaker 2:

You know it's really interesting as you're talking, mo, I mean what comes up for me is and I can feel this and just the energy that you're bringing to this conversation Like when you have the energy and you're fired up about something and you have the courage to be able to essentially create a career path or enter a career path that speaks to that kind of work that really does fill you up and you pair it with doing that work that you enjoy within an organization that has a strong values alignment, I like to say believes the same things that you believe in, then like those two things together are going to help you like feel like you're making a difference, feel like you're fulfilled and when you're fulfilled, you are like less likely to start looking around, you're less likely to do that thing you hear about, like quiet, quitting and like dialing back slowly on the work that you're doing. You're less likely to do those things and you're more likely to talk to leaders and say, hey, I want to do more of this kind of work or how do I partner with you? How can we collaborate and just expanding outside of what it is that you're doing? And like talking to individuals like yourself who clearly love the work that they're doing and have, like, really built that for themselves. It's so empowering. It's empowering but then it's just the reward that you get from. That is like you can't put a price tag on it.

Speaker 2:

And when I talk to clients that don't want to go to work on Monday, on Sunday, they're like dreading, it's another week. So when I talk to individuals who are dreading going to work or are just talking about falling out of love with their work or maybe they're with organizations that they really don't jive or agree with the leadership there's been some leadership shifts and that's caused them to second guess, like what it is that they're doing and where they're doing it. Those are the people I want to help. It's the individuals. Some of them are ones that are actively looking for work because they've been in a situation like me they've lost their job.

Speaker 2:

But there's more and more people now and I think the pandemic has really clued this in where people are thinking about what's important to them, they're reflecting on it and they're holding it up against what they're doing and where they're doing it, and they're realizing that there's some misalignment, that the work that they're doing now isn't ticking their big boxes.

Speaker 2:

It doesn't align with the work that gives them energy. It doesn't align with the kind of organization they want to be part of, and those are the people that are starting to come to me because they want clarity. They don't know where to go, but they know. They don't want to do what they're doing anymore, but they don't know what that next step is, and so being able to clear the fog for them and give them that clarity through a structured process is ultimately like the reward for me. When I see clients find that next job where they're leaving something that they didn't really enjoy too much, that's a huge reward. I'm a witness to the progress of my clients and the reward is really the individuals going on to different things. They're going to feel that energy in their work and we both know that's a special thing.

Speaker 1:

That's a special place to be. But I'm going to tap into something else that you said. You said courage and that word is really resonating with me right now, and here's why I know you're in Canada, we're in the United States. We just had an administration changeover. Oh yes, there's a lot of restructuring happening as we speak. I know People are being told not to come back. You got to come into the office full time now. Just a lot of restructure and that's generating a lot of fear. When you talk about courage because you mentioned courage how do you work with your clients to establish that courage to navigate in times like this when there's uncertainty about the structure and the places that they work?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's a very timely question, certainly connecting it to world events. Right now too, and in Canada too, we're experiencing our own shifts and an administration change that is very likely that's going to create some changes, certainly in our markets as well. And when I think of courage, I think of choice. And when I think of choice, I think of empowering. If I were to take a step back, one of the things that I'll say to clients of mine, like when they some will come to me and they'll say like I'm stuck, like I can't do anything, this situation sucks and I can't do anything about it for a variety of reasons, and so I'll explore that with them. So in what ways do you feel you're stuck? If you could do anything, what would that be? What would be some options that would be available to you? Not to say you're going to pursue any of these immediately, but let's just brainstorm. What are all the possibilities that you could follow?

Speaker 2:

And when individuals see that, yeah, they don't love their job and they don't love where they are, but there are options where they can find fulfilling work for another organization, that is the courage right. There is the courage to realize, first of all, that nobody's telling me I have to stay here. Now there's financial considerations too right, for example, in our government. Too right, for example, in our government. There's great benefits the pension is one of the biggest benefits that our government offers and so people feel stuck because, oh, if I leave the government then I'm going to be leaving my pension behind. And when you start to talk about all the different considerations yeah, let's, have you talked to a financial planner? It was one of those questions Like what are the options for you financially? Do you have to stay in this until retirement in order to get those benefits? Can you find some of those benefits elsewhere? And when individuals realize that they have a number of different options, that then they would have to research, they would have to talk to their family and all of those kinds of things, because we don't make decisions just unilaterally Then it opens up the door for them. They realize, okay, I actually can take steps forward, I can do different things.

Speaker 2:

And for some people, maybe they stay where they are, but they have now the courage to go and talk to their leader and say these things that I'm doing. I'm not really feeling as much energy with them, but here are some things around me that I'd really like to get involved in. So that is courage, even just to stay where you are and try to figure out is there a way that I can make this work for me in a different way than I'm experiencing it today? And it is all the empowering. Yes, you can make a shift. You know, if you're committed to it, you have to want it.

Speaker 2:

But when you talk about what are the pros and cons, what if I, if I follow this path? What does it open up for me If I don't follow this part path? What does it close down for me? And all of that widens the view quite a lot that make different possibilities possible. And then to take steps forward like this is where a career coach helps. Like I'm a conversation partner with my clients. I'm not telling them what to do or that, and the hard work is being done by them, but helping them, like for them, to come to a realization. You know what? This is something that I can do. Can you help me with that? Okay, yeah, let's put together a plan that will help you take those steps and that does take courage, because it's moving from a place of I feel like I'm stuck to a place where you realize you have options and there's actionable steps that you can take, even baby step ones that will help you get closer there.

Speaker 1:

But typically, from the viewpoint of feeling stuck, there's usually limiting beliefs that are present. And when limiting beliefs are present, you're not seeking knowledge to dismiss the limiting beliefs, because in certain moments you're trying to project worst case scenario, because that's what your experience has been right and so what you do. What I do when we work with clients is help them explore possibilities by asking empowering and powerful questions. When you can ask those open-ended, powerful, empowering type questions, it makes a person really pause and think of alternatives and start to get out of your own way. Like I always say right, you start getting this confidence, you start thinking like man, this is all in my head, that's right, you're right, I did used to do that, I was good at that. But when you don't explore it and you just accept the initial instincts, the initial instinct to be afraid, that's because a limiting belief, the inner critic, some sort of assumption, some sort of interpretation, it's all present.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's the narrative right, like it's the narratives are the. It's the narrative right. Our narratives are the story that we tell ourselves. Right, it's a story that's in our head. And you're right, that narrative is founded on assumptions about a thing, an event, a person, or judgments about those same things, and when we shift to focusing on facts, that's where we start to debunk our own limiting beliefs.

Speaker 2:

So, for example, like a number of my clients who are, they're in a job search, and one of the biggest activities in a job search in order to uncover opportunities is networking. It's having one-on-one conversations like we're having right now, one-on-one conversations, obviously focused on a job search, and there's a lot of people who will not want to do that, and so we, when I'm exploring with them, one of the limiting beliefs that comes up is people are too busy, so I can't ask them to help me out, I can't ask them to have time with them to talk about their organization or how they got into their career path or any of that kind of stuff. And so I'll say to them so what evidence do you have to support that? And usually the answer is nothing. There is no actual evidence. Nobody actually said to them I'm too busy, I can't help you. But we create this story that thinks that I can't bother someone. And then I'll take it one step further. As another way of reframing that belief, I'll say to them so let's say for a moment that you know a friend of a friend reached out to you and let's say Mo, you're a coach, I'm a coach.

Speaker 2:

And let's say a friend of yours comes to you and says you know what? I've got a friend who's wanting to get into coaching. They're not really sure it's for them. Would they be able to have some time with you and you could talk about, like how you got into it and all of that? And I'll say to them let's say you were on the receiving end of that question, how would you respond? And they would say like nine times out of 10, they'd say, of course I'd help people, help me, I would help them. So I'd say is it possible that when you're making these requests of other people that they might have some time for you?

Speaker 2:

And then people go oh, yeah, I said yeah, that's a limiting belief, right? The limiting belief is people are too busy, they're not going to say yes, they're just going to shut me down. We're making assumptions on that, but when we realize I don't have any evidence and I would probably respond favorably if I was on the receiving end. Now we've reframed that limiting belief into something that tells us, yes, people want to help and they just want to know how they can help, but people are generous with their time.

Speaker 2:

And so the difference in that it illuminates so much and it just opens up the path for people to start exploring, to start making big decisions and choices that are their choices to make, because in the context of our career, we go through our careers and usually we don't get off, we don't get off the world, we don't hit the pause button and start to reflect on what's important to us. But I encourage people to do that because when you do, that's what's going to start to make you realize, hey, yeah, I need something different, I need to be somewhere else. But I know now the reasons why, because I have some evidence that backs that up. And then when you have a plan, the plan is like very tangible, very actionable, very practical, can help you move forward and move away from those limiting beliefs and into something like productive and positive activity that can really support your career.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, Absolutely, and it sounds to me you bring so much value to your clients and helping them get out of their own way to navigate their career. But let me ask you this, as we move closer to signing out who is your clients? What demographics are they?

Speaker 2:

So my clients, believe it or not, are men, women, all different sectors, different parts of the US, canada. I've got some international clients as well, and but the thing that is common, though, is I really work with two like groups of individuals. So, regardless of where you are in your career I would say, though, I don't work with students or individuals like fresh out of university to help them figure out what their path is Mid-career professionals are typically the group that I will work most with, although I have worked with individuals to help them carve out a retirement plan as well and figure out, like that, next chapter in their career. But the two groups of individuals that come to me that are in need of my services are individuals who are dreading the Mondays, are feeling like, discouraged in their work. Maybe they're, like undervalued and not appreciated, really looking for something new. Not sure what that is. So that's group number one. Group number two are you mentioned at the top of our conversation, mo? There's a lot of change right now happening in the world, which means that there's restructures, there's business decisions, there's job eliminations, and all of those business decisions are affecting humans. So I work with individuals who have found themselves suddenly out of work and they also are needing to put together a plan, find new work usually quickly and enter the job market and feel confident navigating that job market. So those two pockets of individuals I work with and just the reward of helping both of them find a new path. For some people they do the same thing, but somewhere else. For others, they use it as an opportunity to do something that maybe they've thought about all of their career. But now they have an opportunity to do it and they switch career paths.

Speaker 2:

I'll give you an example. In the pandemic I worked with retail store owners and restaurant owners, because the pandemic was not kind to retail or hospitality, obviously especially hospitality. And one of my clients owned a restaurant. He was in hospitality all of his life. He remembers as a kid like bussing tables because his family was in the business. He's never known anything outside of being in a restaurant, but he was at a place where he had to sell his restaurant.

Speaker 2:

He realized that was something he wanted to do and together we were able to work to help him articulate his transferable skills those skills that exist outside of hospitality are sought after in different industries. Help him figure out his achievements. Help him figure out what his new destination would be like, what kind of career paths he want to explore, and then we created a plan together. So I like to think of looking for work as like going on vacation not as fun, but you need to have a destination, you need to have a plan together.

Speaker 2:

So I like to think of looking for work as like going on vacation not as fun, but you need to have a destination, you need to have a plan. And so I helped him transition from being a restaurant owner with, like, only that experience, and he took all of that to be a senior project manager in construction, because there were a lot of synergies between the two. Like he had to work with vendors as a restaurant owner. He had to manage projects as a restaurant owner. He had to build relationships and work with external customers as a restaurant owner so many transferable skills that led him into a field that he's been interested in, and it was really exciting to see him move into that from doing something that was like very singularly focused. So that just gives you an example of information that some clients can experience through coaching.

Speaker 1:

That's amazing. So how can you be found?

Speaker 2:

What do they got to do to get a hold of you? Gosh, there's a few different ways, so certainly LinkedIn is one of those places I post about career transition and job search topics like very regularly, four times or upwards in a week. So please do connect with me over LinkedIn and follow me. You'll learn a lot that way. Certainly, you can reach out to my website, which is mshafercoachingca, and I have authored a book which is launching. It's going to be on Amazon February 6th and it's called Cultivating Career Growth Navigating Transitions with Purpose.

Speaker 2:

When you go to my website, there's a tab called my Book and you can actually get a free chapter of my book. That just gets sent to your email. It gives you a chance to try before you buy, so it gives you a little bit of a taste and some resources that can help you. Even reaching out by email, michelle at mchafercoachingca, you can reach out, you can talk to me. You can even book a complimentary 30-minute conversation. If you are at a place where you know you need to find something else and you're ready to take that next step, then please do reach out. You can actually book time with me, also on my website, and would love to have the conversation.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm going to invite you back on the show so that we can talk about this book specifically.

Speaker 2:

That would be amazing.

Speaker 1:

I want to talk about the book. I want to explore that too, because you're such an amazing coach. I feel the synergy, so I want to bring you back so we can talk about the book.

Speaker 2:

I would love that. I would love that the book and so many other things. We've got lots to talk about.

Speaker 1:

As we sign out, any final thoughts or a message you want to leave the audience.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think the one thing I'll leave your listeners with, because likely you've got some individuals who are listening right now and thinking, yeah, I need to find something else. I'm feeling really discouraged and I don't want to feel like this for the rest of my life or until I retire. Or maybe some individuals are struggling in a job search, like they have been displaced and they need to find something else and they're feeling, oh my gosh, am I ever going to find a new job? So there could be a lot of feelings there and the one thing I'll offer to all of your listeners is, if you have any of those thoughts and emotions or somebody who does, this is not your forever place, and that's something I share with my clients a lot.

Speaker 2:

Regardless of what your situation is today, what you're experiencing right now is not going to be your forever place. So if you're actively looking for work and you're not getting those interviews, this is not your forever place. You will find work again. You will not be unemployed forever. And if you're feeling frustrated in your work, same thing. You're not stuck, you have choices, you have options. Sometimes working with a conversation partner can unlock those possibilities. But to know that, yeah, you're not stuck. You don't have to be where you are. There are some other alternatives. You just need to open the mind, widen the view and do some research, and all of those things are things that I can support people with. Yeah, parting thought. Thanks for asking about that.

Speaker 1:

Say it, Michelle Appreciate you.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate you too. Thank you so much for having me on. I've loved this conversation. It's gone to lots of different places, which is really exciting.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely Thank. You have a great day.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, you too.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for joining me in this episode of let's Think About it. Your time and attention are greatly appreciated. If you found value in today's discussion, I encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Remember, the journey of self-improvement is ongoing and I'm here to support you every step of the way. Connect with me on social media for updates and insights. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook, at Coach Mo, coaching or LinkedIn, at Maurice Mabry, or visit my website at mauricemabrycom for exclusive content. Until next time, keep reflecting, keep growing and, most importantly, keep believing in yourself. Remember, the most effective way to do it is to do it Together. We're making incredible strides toward a better and more empowered you, so thank you, and I'll see you in our next episode.