Let's Think About It Podcast
Welcome to the Let's Think About It Podcast with Morice (Coach Mo) Mabry! Are you ready to break free from fear, doubt, and uncertainty to unlock your true potential? Join Coach Mo on a transformative journey as we tackle the barriers hindering your personal growth. In each episode, we engage in insightful conversations with certified coaches, career professionals, and thriving entrepreneurs. Together, we uncover practical strategies to overcome self-imposed limitations and cultivate resilience. Gain clarity, boost confidence, and thrive in the face of uncertainty. Coach Mo, an Associate Certified Coach (ACC) accredited by the International Coaching Federation (ICF) and a published author, serves as your guide on this empowering quest for self-discovery and growth. Through mindfulness and mindset mastery, we empower you to navigate the inner critic and life's challenges to seize opportunities for success. Tune in to the Let's Think About It Podcast to equip yourself with the tools and inspiration needed to embrace uncertainty, conquer fear, tame the inner critic, and chart a course towards personal fulfillment. Start your journey to greatness today!
Let's Think About It Podcast
Crafting Your Professional Joy Manifesto
🎙️ Have you ever stood at the crossroads of passion and practicality in your career? That's where Anthony Kuo found himself, before his life took an unexpected turn, leading him to become the career satisfaction coach who is joining us today. From the prestigious stage of Carnegie Hall to the ruthless efficiency of corporate America, Anthony's tale is a stark reminder that skill and fulfillment are often miles apart. He opens up about his transformative car crash, the moment that propelled him towards aiding others in their quest for meaningful work. This episode isn't just about finding what makes you tick; it's about flipping the script on your entire professional narrative. 🔀
This time around, we're cutting through the noise to tackle the elusive beast of career satisfaction. As leaders or aspiring influencers in our fields, we wrestle with the 'care card' – that personal manifesto of what we need to not only succeed but to genuinely enjoy the ride. Anthony breaks down how to recalibrate our expectations and dig deeper into the motivations that fuel our professional fires. We also confront the silent epidemic of quiet quitting and share strategies to reignite the spark in your current role. If you're looking for the light at the end of the workplace tunnel or just a way to keep the flame burning in a job you once loved, this conversation is your beacon. 🕯️
Welcome to the let's Think About it podcast, where we embark on a journey of thoughtfulness and personal growth.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, Coach Mo, and I'm here to guide you through thought-promoting discussions that will inspire you to unlock your full potential. In each episode, we'll explore a wide range of topics, from self-discovery and mindfulness to goal-setting and achieving success. Together, we'll challenge conventional thinking and dive deep into the realms of possibility. Whether you're looking to find clarity in your personal or professional life, or seeking strategies to overcome obstacles, this podcast is your go-to source for insightful conversations and practical advice. So find a comfortable spot, chill and let's embark on this journey of self-improvement together. Remember, the power of transformation lies within you, and together we'll uncover the tools and insights you need to make it happen. So let's dive in. Welcome to another episode of the let's Think About it podcast. I'm your host, Coach Mo, and I'm here with another great guest. His name is Anthony Kuo. Anthony, what's up, man? Good to be here. Thanks for having me. Absolutely Before we just jump started here, you got to tell our audience where you're calling in from.
Speaker 2:I live in the great city of New York, new York, that's right. I live in Manhattan, right next to Central Park.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, Born and raised on the East Coast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, east Coast. I was born in Queens and then my family moved to New Jersey when I was a kid and then I thought I'd get out, and then I ended up going to college at NYU and haven't left.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, okay, that's awesome man that's awesome. West Coast meets East Coast today, there you go.
Speaker 2:You know what? I spent a lot of time on the West Coast.
Speaker 1:Well, let's jump right into it. Man, you are a career satisfaction coach. Tell us about your journey and why you became a career satisfaction coach.
Speaker 2:So I like to put a lot of emphasis on that word satisfaction. Right, because there's career coach, which I think of as more like how do you get the job, which is a very important thing. You got to be able to put together a strong resume. You got to be able to kill it at the thing. You got to be able to put together a strong resume. You got to be able to kill it at the interview. You got to be able to negotiate.
Speaker 2:But what's you going to get that job for? Right? What are you going to? What do you want to be when you grow up? Basically? And is that job you're going to land going to fill you up and make your life better, or are you going to spin out trying to fit yourself into a job that actually doesn't fit you? So, a career satisfaction coaches. As a career satisfaction coach, what I am very interested in is learning about the person I'm working, the person sitting, a human being sitting in front of me and understanding what exactly is it that makes you tick. And then, once we figure that out, then we can ask the question of where can you get that met?
Speaker 1:Okay, so how did you get to that point, though? What was, what's the background story? How did you figure that this career satisfaction coaching thing is your it? Yeah, how did you get there?
Speaker 2:This started really because I was a lost 20 something year old climbing up the corporate ranks I mentioned. I went to and I went to the NYU Stern School of Business. So I went up through the whole corporate ladder chain of like marketing, jobs, consulting, and did pretty well for myself. I was recognized and respected and promoted and I had this very interesting experience where I on the outside was getting everything right, like salary, title, bought, the house, all of it but on the inside I was just.
Speaker 2:I felt like I was dying inside. I would get home and just feel completely drained and I didn't have any energy for working out. I didn't have any energy to see friends, didn't have any energy for a relationship. I had just broken up with my college girlfriend. I was a pretty miserable dude, despite looking like I was doing great, and so what I do now is a love letter to that poor guy. And one of the things that I had to figure out was that there's a really big difference between being good at something, having a really valuable skill, versus actually enjoying that. And this is real personal for me, man, this goes all the way back to, like my childhood Cause I was a. I'm Chinese American, I was born to two very accomplished parents, that they were musicians. My mom was a musical prodigy. They both went to Juilliard. So I was born with the talent Right and I also had the training right. My mom taught me piano.
Speaker 1:Okay, so were you expected to follow their footsteps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was certainly trained to a very high level. So when I was 17 years old, I performed at Carnegie Hall and you would think that that level of achievement would make me feel great, but it really didn't. It was a purely utilitarian thing for me, where I was like I'm going to take that recording, send it into colleges, get myself a scholarship. That's the only reason why I went through it with it. It wasn't for the love of the music, but I was good at it. So I spent my whole life basically doing stuff that other people told me were good for me and I was really good at it and not actually personally interested in it. So that's one of the really big reasons why I got into this book, because I found myself disconnected from what actually interested me.
Speaker 1:You were carrying this feeling around, this emptiness, like you were really talented at what you did, but it was a level of emptiness that you were carrying. What was the pivotal moment that you said to yourself I can't do this, no more. I got to move this way or I got to find something else. What was that moment, and how did you have developed the courage to pursue?
Speaker 2:it. I got into a fender bender, a little car accident. I was in a parking lot and wasn't really paying too close attention and I like very lightly tapped the car behind me and I live in New York City I didn't pay that any mind, I didn't even think anything happened. But someone else in the parking lot noticed it and they were like that guy just did a hit and run and they called the cops and it turned into a whole thing where lawyers had to get involved, court dates so much nonsense. I won't bore you with those details. But the net result of it was that I was so pissed off, it was so infuriating, it felt so unfair for such a minor thing to blow up into that huge thing. And what happened was that the car. Because I was commuting home from work when this happened.
Speaker 2:The car turned into the symbol for everything that was wrong in my life. I was reverse commuting from New York City to my job in New Jersey. Oh my goodness, like it just snapped me out of my trance that things were quote unquote working. I was twisting myself into a pretzel to make it work and when the car turned into this lightning rod of trouble, it just made it impossible for me to maintain that delusion anymore. It was not working. It had not been working for many years and I was out of options and so I had. At the time, I had a plan of all right, I'm going to save some money and I stay in this job for another two years. I'm going to be very deliberate, very careful, build up my clientele. I'm going to leave when I have a parachute. Do you think I stuck with?
Speaker 1:that plan man, you'll be a brave soul to be jumping off planes parachuting that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they say that the definition of an entrepreneur is somebody who jumps out of a plane and builds the parachute on the way down. That is what I did.
Speaker 1:Wow. So what was it that said career coach? I wanted to explore career coaching. Where did that moment take place?
Speaker 2:It was a little bit of a slow burn. My original training and coaching was as a relationship coach. Now, I didn't want to be a relationship coach, I was just a lonely dude, okay, we just wanted to learn more about how that all worked and that's why I went into that program. But a really interesting thing started to happen where, when I was at work, my performance started to really improve. Like, my job was as a strategic data analyst, and you wouldn't think that relational skills would be super helpful, but in fact it was because I was working with people who were like non-technical right, like marketers, executives, who don't speak in statistics, they speak in decisions, they speak in emotions, especially the more creative brand folks, and so having that skill really helped me to bridge that gap and I began to occupy this niche where I was translating between the like real data scientists and the people with the like statistics and math degrees, with the MBAs and I.
Speaker 2:My favorite part of that job was actually not anywhere in my job description. It was the mentoring. It was the helping my friends out who needed to go from one place to another. Hey, cool, let me help you out with your resume. And oh cool, you have an interview coming up, let me help you pitch your story Cause again, one of my strengths was I also understood marketing and what is going on in interview or putting together your resume. It's marketing. So one thing led to another. Right, yeah, my friend out, they get the job, and then they're super happy, they're super grateful, and then they tell their friend. And then their friend says, cool, can I talk to this guy? And at first I wasn't charging nobody right, like it was just for fun.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed it. But then it started taking up some time and I realized that I had a gift for it, because what I really enjoy is not even the technical art of how do you put together the most beautiful resume. I actually don't do resume work anymore. Like I don't write resumes out, I'll help someone edit. What I really enjoy is being with the person and drawing out their stories, drawing out their strengths, drawing out their gifts and then reflecting it back to them. And the funniest thing happens every single time I'll say something like okay, so you did this project and you did it this way and it had this result and they're going well. You put it that way. That sounds super impressive and I'm just like I'm just putting it the way you put it. I'll get back to you Exactly.
Speaker 1:And it's self-awareness, helping people gain that self-awareness because in certain circumstances, there's blind spots that they're just totally unaware of. There's blind spots that they're just totally unaware of and us, as coaches, have the ability to bring down those blind spots, to help create self-awareness. And when you're able to do that for somebody, man, it's just such a great feeling to be able to uplift someone in that regard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is such a high I got addicted to it. That's why I decided this is going to be the thing that I do.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. So let's dive into a little bit about career satisfaction and, because this is your realm of coaching, what would you say is the common misconception common misconceptions around career satisfaction? What would you?
Speaker 2:say that is Probably the biggest one is that a single moment will define your career satisfaction. If I get this new job, I'm going to be happy. If I get this raise, I'm going to be happy. If I get this, if I change teams, if I change industries, I'll be happy. It's really common I see it. 99% of the people who come in my door say some version of that coming in. And the truth is, career satisfaction is not any single moment. It is a choice you have to make over and over, and over and over again. Every single. It's a continuous journey.
Speaker 2:So you can actually start creating career satisfaction right now without changing your job. Okay, like you can just maybe have a slightly uncomfortable conversation right now with somebody who's driving you up the wall. You can choose right now to close your laptop at 530 and not answer any emails on your phone at 10 PM. You can choose based on who you are as a person, how you want to show up on the other side. Just because you get into a job doesn't mean you're done right. That's just the beginning. You got to advocate for yourself. How do you make sure that everyone understands what you're about, what you need and how to treat you right. How do you navigate it when somebody assumes something different? How do you especially when you're getting into higher levels of leadership how do you make sure that you're balancing your life right? Because if you're that good, you want to impress right, especially if you're a first-time leader in your first executive role, how do you do that and stay centered?
Speaker 1:So check this out right here. I'm a client, I'm a potential client. I come across you and I want to work. I want to work with you, career satisfaction and I have this misconception that, anthony, if I line this job, man, I'm going to be, I'm going to be big time, I'm going to be, I'm going to this, is it? I'm satisfied, I'm good. Take me through your process of how you get me out of that misconception about myself, about this. The circumstance of this job is what's going to make me satisfied.
Speaker 2:As a fellow coach, you probably know this already, but I'm not going to come in and then burst your bubble. Right, I'm going to. I'm going to meet you where you're at. So Right, I'm going to. I'm going to meet you where you're at. So right, you're excited about this big change. I'm going to work with that. Right, we're going to use that as fuel. So what about? This new opportunity excites you, right? Cause there's information right there, and what I'm, my job, especially in the beginning, is to help you build an understanding and a vocabulary for what you need.
Speaker 2:I call it a care card. When I work with my clients, it's like when you buy a plant at the store. There is a little tag in it that give me this much water, give me this much light, don't overfeed me, right? What I'm trying to understand is what's on your care card and when you're excited about something, that's telling me information about your care card. And when you're pissed off at something, when something's driving you nuts, that's also telling you something about what's going on with your care card, right? So, yeah, I would absolutely engage with that. Or, because the other scenario is, I can't think of the future, I just need to get the hell out of where I am right now. That's another very clear reality.
Speaker 1:Okay, great, we're going to meet you where you're at what's pissing you off right now, right, and that'll tell us a lot of information about what's on your care card, because a person's frustrations where they're currently at, they always project that the grass is greener on the other side and they're quick to jump into whatever next position is available for them with. The reality sometimes can be that they carry that baggage, the behaviors, to the new position and it starts to repeat itself again with the discomfort that they was having at the other place. And people have to learn to start to navigate that. And how do you like work with clients who don't really have those realistic expectations for themselves and trying to help them navigate, like some of those limiting beliefs that they carry? How do you help people in that regard?
Speaker 2:When you say they don't have realistic expectations, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 1:Realistic expectations like I hate this job and if I get this job over here and it's going to pay me X amount of dollars, I'm going to be a totally different person and I'm going to be extremely happy and now can take care of my family.
Speaker 2:So one of the best questions that I had in my arsenal usually pull it out half a dozen times in the first session that I have with someone, or even just when I'm meeting them and we're having an exploratory conversation is what will having that do for you? So you want to get, you want to make another $40,000 next year Awesome, what will having that do for you? Oh, I'm going to be able to take care of my family better, thank you. And what will having that do for you? When I take care of my family, I'm going to be able to feel like I'm a good provider. All right, get somewhere and we'll having that. I feel like I'm a good provider. I'll feel valid as a human being. Okay, now, we're good. Can you just go layer and layer until we can't go any further, which is right. So someone who answers along that vein of this is about their value as a human being, we're going to get go in a different direction than someone who answers that, at $20,000, $40,000, is going to be able to go on vacation. I'm going to feel free. I don't have an attitude. I'm going to feel like my choices matter. Okay, see, that's a different. We're working towards something different. Now, you're right.
Speaker 2:When someone is in pain, the knee jerk reaction, this is just human nature. The knee jerk reaction is to jump to a solution. How can I? What is the fastest way I can make the pain go away? Right, and that's fine. That's fine. That's what that is. That is 100, just how we're wired neurologically, and the place where that gets sticky for us is that career is a long-term, so short-term solutions don't always work super well on the long-term game.
Speaker 2:So what these questions help us to get to is what are the underlying criteria of career satisfaction according to you? Right? The job title, the salary, the promotion, the whatever is your code. It's your proxy for the thing you're actually looking for. It's just the nearest reach you're able to make right now with the information you have available, and so that's why it's so valuable to pay attention to it. But then get really curious about what you're really looking for, right, because if you're looking for a feeling of being valuable, like you matter, all right, that's getting us somewhere, because you want to feel like your choices matter. How do you know that your choices matter? And then we can get very specific about this, to the point of being very concrete and very operational about it.
Speaker 2:So, zooming out for a moment here, I define career satisfaction as when you are in an environment and in a context where your personality, all of the weird quirks of how you show up in the world are valued and appreciated and you don't have to twist yourself into a pretzel to fit in, to feel like you belong. It is so exhausting to pretend to be something you're not. That's why a lot of people burn out. So getting down to these really specific underpinnings of why you're reaching for the thing that you're reaching for will help us get there. Let me ask you this what's quiet quitting? It's a very popular term If you're on social media, if you're on LinkedIn, if you're reading the Gallup poll. Quiet quitting is when it's branded as a new thing. That's happening, but it's happened for a really long time. It's what our previous generations would have called just like phoning it in. If you're just coasting along, I am going to do the bare minimum to not get fired.
Speaker 1:How does a person start to navigate away from that to finding a more desirable, deserving, satisfying type career for themselves or more satisfaction for themselves?
Speaker 2:yeah, quite quitting it. Let's just recognize it for what it is. Whether you call it quite quitting or something else, it's a survival tactic. You're trying to preserve your energy, you're trying to survive in an environment that either doesn't fit you very well or is super toxic, and you're burning out because someone is relating you or micromanaging you. So, before we jump to solutions, should I stay in this job or get out of the job? The question we should really be asking is what do I need to thrive? Because quite quitting is a survival game. But if you're like me, you want to thrive, you don't want to just survive in the. You're like me, you want to thrive, you don't want to just survive in the world. So what do you need to thrive? That's where the tarot card comes in. So it's first what's on your tarot card? What do you need to thrive? And then, once you know that, you ask yourself where can I find that? And once you know that, then you can say all right, this is how I make it a reality. This is how I make it a reality. This is the process I take people through when I work with them. The reason why I'm hesitant to get into what specifically should someone do is because sometimes, based on what you need, it is available exactly where you are. You just need to advocate for yourself in a certain way, right?
Speaker 2:I work with someone who, when I started working with her, she was like this, close to reach quitting. I think if she didn't speak to me that day, she probably would have gone in and worked the next day, flipped everyone off and just quit and burned all those bridges. And when I worked with her, we got into what she needed to feel respected, to feel like what were her specific criteria. She realized, oh, I actually think my manager would be okay with that, and partly out of desperation, partly out of let me just try it, what the hell else do I have to lose?
Speaker 2:She spoke up for herself at work and she did it small, one small thing at a time. I'm going on vacation and you're going to leave me alone. I'm going to ask for the team to pick up their slack so that I can focus on the thing that I'm actually good at and the reason why you hired me, so on and so forth. And we did this for a few months and she came in like four or five months later and she said Anthony, what's the weirdest thing that's happened? I am doing so great and it's so weird because I haven't changed my job. I haven't changed companies. My job description is exactly the same, but I am a new my job. I haven't changed companies. My job description is exactly the same, but I am a new woman and I am having such a great time. How cool is that? Save yourself the entire headache of a job search and learning a new team and building goodwill from scratch and all that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, that's very powerful. What about? I think of situations where I'm working with people and I'm helping them in around the same dissatisfaction in their role Right Instead of being so quick jump but reassessing where they are to regain positivity because the positivity currently will open doors later will open doors later opposed to taking the frustration and trying to make an emotional decision right, because that's what typically happens Very emotional because you're frustrated and you just want to get out of there. Like I mentioned before, it can cloud you in your decision-making because you didn't actually spend time doing your due diligence of what the true opportunity is, and so now you find yourself on the other side and you're still dealing with the same internal baggage. And what are some techniques that you provide to your clients to regain positivity in those moments of I just described?
Speaker 2:Well, I love what you're saying. One of my mottos is go slow to go fast, right, I like that. I like that, yeah. So that's one of the first things I tell people, and everyone likes it. I like that. You want to go fast. If you're in a bad situation, you want to get out fast. First thing is all right, we are going to go fast, and the way to go fast is slow down right now.
Speaker 2:The second thing positivity is such an interesting thing, and so is negativity, and the reason why I say that. It's because I don't call it a technique per se, but it is a ninja trick. The thing I do is I let people complain. I let people be in their negativity. I give space to it.
Speaker 2:Yes, I have this video that I made a while ago, called is your gratitude journal. Keeping you stuck Because we are so quick, right, because being in the negativity is painful. I don't want to be there and nobody I know wants to stay there, right? So we go to our gratitude. I'm so grateful that I'm healthy, I'm so grateful that I even have a job, right, and you give yourself that attitude adjustment and you feel good and you know what it works. So you go to the next day. You're a new person, sweet. But then nothing changes, right. And so there you are.
Speaker 2:Two weeks later, same person bugs you and the same thing happens, right? This is what I call the misery cycle. So I think being respectful to the negative experience, being respectful to the dissatisfaction, give it the attention that it actually deserves and mine it for all the important information that is trying to be expressed through those negative feelings is really important, because then that starts to transmute it from just feeling stuck. Oh man, what the hell am I going to do with myself? I feel so terrible To okay, now I have a specific list of red flags that I want to move away from, and now I have a specific list of green flags that I want to move towards. That in and of itself is motivating.
Speaker 1:I hear acknowledgement in that too, I really do, acknowledging the bad and owning it. It's okay, because then, with that acknowledgement, it gives you the power of choice so that you can start to navigate, as we start to wrap this up, who are your clientele, who are the people that you work with and how can they find you?
Speaker 2:What an excellent thing. I work with people who want a more fulfilling and satisfying career. This can be somebody who is like 22 and what the hell did I just walk into first thing, out of college all the way up to? I work with people who are c-suite and major corporations, and the questions are fundamentally the same what do I need to thrive in the community? The levers you have available to pull and the the responsibilities you have may be different, but you have to navigate. The fundamental question is exactly the same. I work with people who are interested in and ready for that inner break. You probably have tried to jump jobs a couple of times and, as Coach Mo has been saying here, notice, oh yeah, you get a new job and then three months in, you realize, okay, the same pattern is running. So if you've had that come to Jesus moment with yourself and you're ready for getting down to the root of things, I am your guy and you can find me at untamedcareercom. Awesome.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Any final tips, wisdom nuggets you would like to share with?
Speaker 2:the audience. You are not alone. I know from personal experience how isolating from your dissatisfaction can feel. I felt completely broken. I felt like there was something wrong with me. When I was unhappy especially because I was successful, right I was like this is where my gratitude journal got me stuck. I was like what the hell is wrong with you, man? Just be grateful that you have a good job and just shut up the rest.
Speaker 2:But if you read any of the polls, any of the articles right, I was checking out the 2023 Gallup poll 44% of people say that they're highly stressed. More than 60% of people are disengaged. So if you're feeling any of that, you are in very good company, and the only reason why you might be feeling alone is because we're not really allowed to talk about it. Could you imagine what a different space LinkedIn would be if we didn't have to put on the facade of everything is awesome all the time? Yeah, but it's too risky because there's reputational risk and for good reason. We don't want to be the person who's told oh dude, that's not a good look. So, if you have it available to you and if it's safe for you, talk to somebody Absolutely who can understand, Because maybe that's someone in your family, Maybe it's a close co-worker, Maybe it's a friend, or maybe it's somebody who has seen a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why I always say the best way is to get out of your own way, and the most effective way to do that is talking to someone getting it out there. Thank you, brother.
Speaker 2:Appreciate you, man Appreciate you.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for your insightful questions, absolutely, and thank you, audience, for listening in. We'll catch you again. Thank you for joining me in this episode of let's Think About it. Your time and attention are greatly appreciated. If you found value in today's discussion, I encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Remember, the journey of self-improvement is ongoing and I'm here to support you every step of the way. Connect with me on social media for updates and insights. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook at Coach Mo Coaching, or LinkedIn at Maurice Mabry, or visit my website at mauricemabrycom for exclusive content. Until next time, keep reflecting, keep growing and, most importantly, keep believing in yourself. Remember, the most effective way to do it is to do it together. We're making incredible strides toward a better and more empowered you, so thank you and I'll see you in our next episode.