Let's Think About It Podcast
Welcome to the Let's Think About It Podcast with Morice (Coach Mo) Mabry! Are you ready to break free from fear, doubt, and uncertainty to unlock your true potential? Join Coach Mo on a transformative journey as we tackle the barriers hindering your personal growth. In each episode, we engage in insightful conversations with certified coaches, career professionals, and thriving entrepreneurs. Together, we uncover practical strategies to overcome self-imposed limitations and cultivate resilience. Gain clarity, boost confidence, and thrive in the face of uncertainty. Coach Mo, an Associate Certified Coach (ACC) accredited by the International Coaching Federation (ICF) and a published author, serves as your guide on this empowering quest for self-discovery and growth. Through mindfulness and mindset mastery, we empower you to navigate the inner critic and life's challenges to seize opportunities for success. Tune in to the Let's Think About It Podcast to equip yourself with the tools and inspiration needed to embrace uncertainty, conquer fear, tame the inner critic, and chart a course towards personal fulfillment. Start your journey to greatness today!
Let's Think About It Podcast
Executive Career Transitions: Strategies for Advancement, Networking, and Negotiation
Join me as we step into the high-stakes arena of executive career management with the guidance of Michelle Merritt, Chief Strategy Officer at DNS Executive Career Management. 🎓 As we traverse the complexities of career advancement at the senior level, Michelle lays bare the essential blend of EQ and IQ needed to conquer the corporate ladder. We cover the full sweep of services tailored for executives in flux—crafting standout resumes, strategic job searching, and the delicate dance of salary negotiations. 💼 For those eyeing a prestigious C-suite role or a coveted position on a board, this episode is a treasure chest of insights and practical wisdom. 🔍
Ever considered that introverts might just be the dark horses of networking? 🤝 Our conversation reveals how their preference for deep and meaningful interactions can build powerful connections that endure. Michelle and I dissect personal networks into distinct clusters and discuss how to cultivate each for robust, mutual support. When it comes to interviews, you'll discover why authenticity could be your secret weapon, even more potent than meticulous preparation. 😌 If the thought of networking sends shivers down your spine, this episode equips you to transform that discomfort into the fuel for your career ascent. 🚀
As the curtain falls on our chat, hear heartening tales of negotiation triumphs and the emotional rigors of executive job hunts. Michelle recounts the story of a client who, with a nudge in the right direction, made the leap to reach out to a key contact, securing the role of his dreams. We also take a peek behind the scenes of DNS Executive Career Management's origin story—a narrative of resilience and reinvention post-2008—and its evolution into a sanctuary for senior executives who seek tailored career guidance and the mastery of self-discovery. 🌟 If you're at the helm of your professional journey, this episode is your compass and map to navigating the seas of the executive world. 🌊
Welcome to the let's Think About it Podcast, where we embark on a journey of thoughtfulness and personal growth. I'm your host, coach Moe, and I'm here to guide you through thought-promoking discussions that will inspire you to unlock your full potential. In each episode, we'll explore a wide range of topics, from self-discovery and mindfulness to goal-setting and achieving success. Together, we'll challenge conventional thinking and dive deep into the realms of possibility. Whether you're looking to find clarity in your personal or professional life, or seeking strategies to overcome obstacles, this podcast is your go-to source for insightful conversations and practical advice. So find a comfortable spot, chill and let's embark on this journey of self-improvement together. Remember, the power of transformation lies within you, and together we'll uncover the tools and insights you need to make it happen. So let's dive in. Welcome to another episode of the let's Think About it podcast. I'm your host, coach Moe, and I'm here with another extraordinary, special person, and her name is Michelle Merritt. Michelle, how are you?
Speaker 2:Hi Coach Moe, how are you?
Speaker 1:I'm awesome. Well, I have a tradition that I've started Before we dive into anything, you have to tell us where you're coming in from and what's going on in that region right now.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, we were talking about this before we hit record. I am from one of the greatest cities in the country. I live in Indianapolis, indiana, and so we are a sports mecca. As you may already know, we just wrapped up the NBA All-Stars, so we've had all kinds of people in town. Of course, we have that little Indianapolis 500 that we're all starting to gear up for now, because it's just starting to warm up here in the Midwest, and so that has us thinking about spring, which has us obviously thinking about rates, cars.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, and it's a big week.
Speaker 2:It is a big week.
Speaker 1:For the NFL right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I believe. So I believe the combine is here this week as well, and of course we are the home of the Indianapolis Colts and the Indianapolis Pacers and the Fire and just all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1:All eyes on Indianapolis.
Speaker 2:I love it I love it.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, yes, yes. So tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do, how you do it just to enter Troll before we dive into our interview today.
Speaker 2:Sure, I am the Chief Strategy Officer for DNS Executive Career Management. So what we do is provide executive career management to executives in transition. So that may be resume creation, that may be creating your bios, things like that. What I'm often called in to do when I work with clients, we have a whole team of people that work with our executives. When I'm called in, often it's for coaching, so it's things like job search strategy, it's things like interview prep, salary negotiation I get called in on a lot of salary negotiation, things like that. We also provide guidance for people who are looking to have their first board seat, so that might be in a paid role, moving into a paid board capacity, something like that. And then we also do executive out placement. So you have heard of organizations that do out placement. If someone has, say, laid off a group of people or laid off an apartment, had a reduction, in course it's a different approach when you're talking about a group of executives being laid off and then need changes. So we specialize in executive out placement services as well.
Speaker 1:Tell me a little bit more about that. How is it different from executive versus a mid-level manager who's trying to to navigate? Tell me more about that.
Speaker 2:So in an executive package, when you're talking about an organization that's going through a reduction in force, the executive package might be a little bit different. You're providing a higher level of service, typically in a broader level of service, things like that. And the executive search process is different, as you probably already know. It tends to take longer. It's more reliant on your network. It's more reliant on your overarching network, not only of who you've done business with, but who you know in your community and things like that. So the job search strategy, the resume design, linkedin, community engagement, salary negotiation all become heightened and a little bit broader in scope than someone who might be a mid-level leader. Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, take me through this process then Help us understand this. I'm a mid-level manager. I'm ready to take that next step. I feel that I should be in a C-suite. What is that process from me as a potential client that you take, that you start to walk us through? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:And I will say this is my favorite level of client. I love our executives, For the people who are making that step and stepping out on faith are my favorite people to work with. My client comes to us and they say I need help. I've been at this level for a long time and so now it's time for me to step out. We're going to start talking. We're going to be looking at their career in a different way than they probably have in the past. So what often happens when someone comes to us is that they have been building on the resume they've had since college and in fact, it may be even just adding to the exact same document that the career services professional put together for them 10 or 15 years ago, and literally just adding onto that same page. So now it's getting lengthy. It's full of bullet points that are more about the job description and not about who they are.
Speaker 2:So when my team comes in, we're doing a couple of things. We're trying to talk about EQ as well as IQ. So we're asking questions like what are you proud of? Where did you make an impact? What sets you apart from your peers? Where do you want to go Things like that. We're also talking about your leadership style, your mentorship style, what your fans and your advocates and your champions say about you. Things like that.
Speaker 2:Because we want to build a suite of documents for you that really demonstrate what sets you apart and tells the reader why they want to get to know you better. Because your resume documents, while they're about you, they're not for you, they're for the reader, and so we need to be able to articulate that. We also then want to articulate the specific accomplishments and achievements, especially in the last 10-ish, 15-ish years, the things that are impactful to where you're headed. If we're talking about a VP that is smoothing into a C-suite role, we're also starting to talk about that visionary leadership. Oftentimes, at the VP level, we're still doers, our sleeves are still pushed up, we're in there doing in the trenches. When we get to a C-level role, we need to start talking about how we lead everyone to a vision. We have everyone driving to the same mission, things like that. We have to articulate those accomplishments in a slightly different way than we do when we're talking about a manager or VP level role.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:That makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yes, it makes total sense. So you said that those are your favorite type of people to work with. Right, who's in that mid-level that's trying to take the lead right.
Speaker 2:I have a soft spot for them.
Speaker 1:That's your sweet spot, right. What advice can you give them before that they can be doing right now to prepare themselves in making that lead?
Speaker 2:I think it's looking at your accomplishments. Number one, it's tracking your accomplishments right. Data metrics, wherever available and appropriate to share, are always important because it helps the reader understand the depth and the impact of what you do. Okay, so that's the first thing Track those metrics. Metrics don't have to be a dollar a month. It could be a process. You know. It could be how an efficiency increase, it could be a staff retention increase. There could be a thousand things we can put a metric to.
Speaker 2:So that's the first part. The second part is to start thinking about your leadership skills and looking for opportunities to lead. So you might have a small team now, right? Or you may not have anyone that directly reports to you, but that doesn't mean you don't have a team. Likely, it means you're leading cross-functionally and you're leading projects, things like that. So be thinking about your leadership skills as well, as you're starting to make that move. How do you influence people, right, and how do you lead teams? That team does not have to be limited to the people that you write a review for at the end of the year.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. So now I'm visualizing you've helped me put my stuff on paper and have arranged from resume to application, having all the content put it in one place on paper. Let's talk about the interview process.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right. So you got the package together for everybody, Right? Take me through the process of the interview prep and getting that person ready for the interview.
Speaker 2:Can I back us up and talk about how we search for the job that's going to get us the interview first?
Speaker 1:Yes, please do, can I?
Speaker 2:back us up. Okay, so we have this great suite of documents, right, and now we've updated LinkedIn as well. That's the other important part there, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, we have a good social presence, as I know you talk to people about Having that executive presence, not only in person, but having that executive presence online as well. So we have a good social proof here. So we have a good profile. We have all of those things. We're using our network and that's what our executive clients know, right, is that their network is what's going to make the difference for them. So, according to LinkedIn, 85% of all positions are found through people we know.
Speaker 2:And when we think about that, linkedin hosts one of the largest job boards, right? So if they're telling us people are the key to our next opportunity, it becomes more and more true the higher up you go. So think about your network. Who's in your network? And your network is made up of so many people.
Speaker 2:That don't include people. You've done business with Everyone in my job. I'm sure you can too. There are people. We can all tell you stories about somebody's next door neighbors, brothers, cousins, sisters, friends who was the key to opening up that opportunity. So being very strategic about how we engage our network will make a huge difference in finding those opportunities, because oftentimes, as we talk about the senior level to the C-suite and we work with C-suites in the Fortune 50, to eat those rolls especially often are never publicized. They're what we call hidden jobs. But people who are filling them know they exist. They know they're going to make a change for that position the board that is considering a new CEO. They know, but the rest of the world does not, and so you've got to utilize your network to really engage them in a way that gets you to that office.
Speaker 1:I'm visualizing and help me through this. I'm not really a social media person. I'm putting myself in a clients' world. I'm not really a social media person. I never really put myself out there like that before, and now you're asking me to tap into my network and my network isn't that big when linked in. How can you help me with that?
Speaker 2:Right, so fair question. And I hear it every single day, and I also. So let's add to that I'm an introvert right, Because that always comes along with that too.
Speaker 2:So a couple of things. Number one introverts make the best networkers. They absolutely do, because introverts care about speaking to a person. Yep, we engage when it's small and it's tight and purposeful. Extroverts tend to want the energy from a big group of people. So introverts make great networkers. As for understanding your network, I break it into three groups. My clients have heard me say this 100 times, so I'm going to give away a little secret sauce here. Number one the first group I break my network into, and I have to keep a list of people in my network. I call it the 2 AM group. Who are the people that you can call at 2 o'clock in the morning who will willingly get out of bed and help you?
Speaker 1:It is a short list of people. Ok, yep.
Speaker 2:For most of us it's somewhere between two people and a half dozen. Someone once told me that she had 20 people on that list. I think she was fooling herself, but I've never met anyone who has 20 people on that list. I mean, we're talking in the middle of the night. My best friend calls this the people with the shovel, meaning the people that will come and dig you out of trouble.
Speaker 1:Yep Right.
Speaker 2:So that's the first group. The second group is what I call the 6 AM group. They're the people that are willingly going to help you throughout the course of outside of the course of a normal business day, but probably not willingly answering the phone in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1:Right, right, because they're probably asleep.
Speaker 2:Because they're probably asleep.
Speaker 2:Right and they're not going to turn on the and they just don't love you as much as the two people at 2 AM let's call it what it is, so that 6 AM group gets a little larger, right, and then we refer to as the 8 AM group are the people who happily will help you in the course of a normal business day if you ask, but probably not going out of their way for you outside of the course of a normal day.
Speaker 2:Now, I had a client once who added a fourth group, which is in case of emergency only. These are the people you really don't want to have to call, but you will if it comes to it, right, right, so I start by having everybody break that up into these groups and then we start looking at these groups and we ask ourselves what do we know about them? Where do they work? Where do they worship? Who is their significant other? Where do their kids go to school? What's their alma mater? Who did they drink with on Saturday and brunch with on Sunday? Right, and it will help us start to identify oh, I forgot that person was in a relationship with that person, or, oh, I forgot they served on that board. Maybe I should, and it will help us start to see the connections.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:That starts to make a big difference and makes it easier. And then it's about knowing what to say, and we work with clients every day to talk about what to really what to say, because network he should never be one-sided.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Network is never about give me, give me, give me Right. How can I help you? Ok. So we work in those areas with clients to understand what to say, how to explain what's going on, if it's confidential, et cetera. And then in every conversation we're not only asking how can I help, we're also saying who else do I need to talk to? Ok, and then that helps us build on that network and we're continually following up things like that. So we dig deep into that aspect of it and you'll be surprised what it brings forward. Now, it may vary. People tell me sometimes my network sucks. They haven't brought forth anything. Well, their job isn't to bring forth something for you. Their job is to help point you to the next spot on the road, right, right, and help you get to the next spot.
Speaker 1:From your experience in working with your clients in that regard. How does that help their confidence going forward?
Speaker 2:It can be scary in the beginning, right, it's really scary, and so I would say step out there. You know that moment when in your belly you feel that, oh God, I'm talking too much, oh, this doesn't feel good, oh yeah. That's the sweet spot. Stay, don't retreat, stay right there.
Speaker 1:I like that.
Speaker 2:Don't pull back, right, because we all get that gut feeling, right, and oh, this is weird and this is uncomfortable. I don't like this. I don't care, stay put. You're grown up, you can figure it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We can all do hard things.
Speaker 1:So you've helped in that regards of establishing a network right and reaching out to people in LinkedIn you connected with. You had a strategy to work with a client and helping them get out of their comfort zone to get out there and see where the opportunities potentially could exist. You've identified that and you did the search. You got some hits back. What about the interview prep now?
Speaker 2:Right. So you know, greater this is paraphrasing Peyton Manning but greater than your desire to win should be your desire to prepare to win.
Speaker 1:Yes, right.
Speaker 2:By the way, he borrowed that from Vince Lombardi, since we're going to talk about it today, right, but and my dad would want me to say that, right, that originally came from the great Vince Lombardi. But, that said, it is about preparation, but it's also not about over, because we can script too much. Yes, I think when you're at that BP level, that mid tier level to the C-suite, when we people will ask us sometimes to role play with them, you know, and really script out answers, only when forced will I volunteer, because I want you to be more comfortable in a conversation. Right, I don't want you to rehearse what, how I rehearse your answers, the way I ask the question, and then suddenly you don't have the right answer when it's asked differently. I'll give you an example. So I was in an interview. This really happened to me. I was in a panel interview. There were 11 people in the room sitting around a board table and I knew eight of the people in the room. Ok, this was my position to lose.
Speaker 2:OK, bill OK then challenging couple days. I admit I hadn't had the sleep I wanted. That's another thing we'll talk about in a second. But I get to that interview. I had prepared and I had rehearsed and I had rehearsed all the questions that I thought they would ask and the gentleman at the other end of the board table said Michelle, what about this? And he asked a question and I swear on the stack of bibles. I heard the peanuts teacher, the want, want, want, want, want, want, swear to God. That's what I heard. And I sat there staring at him and all eight of the people who know me are looking at me accidentally like this is a softball Answer the question I couldn't answer.
Speaker 2:I didn't know what he said and he said he was very kind because I knew so many people in the room. He said you know what, we'll come back to it. Ok, circle back around the table again. We're back to it again. Same thing. Here are the peanuts teacher. He's kind. He says you know what, it's OK, we'll talk about it here in a bit. We go all the way through. I answer all the other questions. I'm flawless about everything else. We get to the last question Same thing. I had to leave the interview without being able to answer the question Because he asked it in such a different way than I had rehearsed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:When I hit the doors of the lobby I thought, oh crap, I know exactly what he asked. I almost ran back inside.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But, like the group had already broke up and it was going to be, it was pointless at that point and so I never want people to over rehearse. I want you to be comfortable pivoting when necessary right and engaging your interview and a conversation, because at this level, at that leadership level and above, we want you to be comfortable having a conversation and interviewing the interviewer just as much as they're interviewing you. This is a big move. It's how you support yourself, it's how you support your family, it's how you contribute to your retirement, it's how you build your reputation.
Speaker 1:Exactly. But it's so nerve-wracking knowing that I'm stepping outside of my box and I want this position, but there's a potential that I might not get it and I know I need it and if I don't get it it's going to suck. So I have all this nervousness that I'm bringing into this interview and how do I manage that?
Speaker 2:Don't over commit. So think about it. What you just said is I've decided I want the role and I don't even know the role yet I know what I assume about the role. Yes, right, yes. And so and it has happened to many of us where we have assumed things about a role. We've said yes based on our assumptions, because we didn't ask the right questions, because we were just too busy wanting it, and maybe we're just too frustrated in the search, right, maybe the search has gone on too long and we're just frustrated and we just say yes because it's the offer in front of us and instead we lose out on compensation, we lose out on our ability to negotiate and we end up in a role that's not either healthy for us or isn't moving our career in a way that we want it to go.
Speaker 2:So that's the first part is don't over commit. Don't over commit for face value. It is only a conversation between you and the interviewer interviewers Right now, and keep your process moving. That's the other thing, right? People tend to say, oh, I really want this role, I really want this role, so I'm going to put all of my eggs in this basket and I'm really going to prepare for this and everything else. That's great, except there are a thousand reasons why people get turned down for a job and only one of them you can control. Yeah, yeah. So if we keep our process moving, if we keep our job search moving, what's the worst thing that happens? We have too many offers to choose from. Exactly. I mean, that's a good, bad day.
Speaker 1:Exactly you touched on. What I talk about is carrying judgment, and I call it the energy blocks. Right, and I talked about in a previous episode limiting beliefs, assumptions, interpretations and a negative voice that's always chirping in our ear and it typically shows up in those situations, going into an interview and you're just carrying all this nervousness and these assumptions of what you think the role is going to be, instead of being non-judgmental, being present and navigating navigating based on what's being said at that moment.
Speaker 2:It's embracing that.
Speaker 1:Yep, and you typically show up the better version of you.
Speaker 2:Completely agree.
Speaker 1:I love that what you said, thank you. So in the interview process you worked with a client. They feel confident. They go through the interview. You helped them with the prep and all of that I5 in. They walk away feeling confident that everything went well. Now they call them back. Let's talk a little bit more about. We potentially want to bring you on what's the negotiation process at this level.
Speaker 2:Right. So there's a few things to be thinking about here, especially as you step into bigger leadership roles. I always tell people to understand your automatic yes and your automatic no. So what makes up your automatic yes and your automatic no? Your automatic yes is I can say yes immediately. I never advise that, but I can say yes immediately without having to check in with family or significant others or give it any thought.
Speaker 2:If the package looks like this, whatever that means for you, the automatic no is it doesn't matter how much I've enjoyed myself, doesn't matter how passionate I am about the organization or the mission, if it doesn't minimum meet this, I can't do it. So, knowing those numbers, and so a lot of and it's more than numbers for a lot of people right, it's job flexibility, it might be remote work, it could be retirement benefits. Right, it could be healthcare could be the amount of commute time could be some retirement bonuses could be, bonus compensation could be. You know, there's a variety of things that make up those numbers in addition to your salary. Right, there you have.
Speaker 2:So we talk with clients all the time about what that means to them, and every client's different. Every client has a different take on what their priorities are. And then and it varies too, based on the size of the company, right, if you're a small startup, you might be talking about divestiture clauses and things like that in the event that the company is sold, those sort of things. If you're talking about a Fortune 50, a lot of those packages are already in place. But what are the other things we need to negotiate? Is it vacation time? Is it your bonus structure? There could be a variety of things there for that. So we walk clients through that all the time and that way we know what is an automatic guess, what's an automatic no. You know where the offer. So when they make an offer which everything should always be in writing you know where it falls for you, because everything between the automatic guess and the automatic no is a matter of negotiation.
Speaker 1:Okay, thank you for talking us through this.
Speaker 2:Of course, share a success story, oh I love those and I love the ones that are hard. Right, we have a few clients right now. I was coaching someone today who, it's hard, that search takes longer at this level, right, so there's some frustration that builds, yeah, and gosh, who else can I talk to? Right, who else you know?
Speaker 1:there's this ongoing frustration, right, and that's probably the time the most that negative talks starts to seep in right Because of the uncertainty of the flow of the search and how the search is going. So that's why this is a powerful story that you're going to tell, whatever that story is, because of those dynamics that most people deal with in going through these job searches.
Speaker 2:Someone told me today I'm just not employable. This person has been at a C level in a large organization for a very long time and they said I'm just not employable by anyone else, I'm just not getting the results I want. Okay, let's stop and examine what that looks like, let's break that down and then we get into in some cases we get into the nitty gritty detail how are you saying this? What if we change this word to this? Things like that, because sometimes it's the really minute things. So what? I love when things like that happen when a client I never want a client to feel frustrated, but I always love when they trust us enough to unload their frustration right, to unload their fear to us, because that's why we're here, right, we're here to guide you through that and get you through those moments of uncertainty that you're talking about. And I think about a client in particular who was at a mid-senior level leadership position, but not at C level role, and he came to us and said my company is closing. I've known that we were going. We had this threat for three years. I've been the one working to keep the lights on for the last three years and now it's just come. Worth the end, right? Okay, great. So how do I do this? What do I do? I've got everything I can think to do. I have an okay resume.
Speaker 2:So we revamped the resume. We worked with him to identify how he was addressing things in the interview, right, how he was saying things. What are those little changes that we can make? The dreaded tell me about yourself question oh my gosh, worse question in the entire world. But yet people ask it every day, things like that. So one thing that made a difference for him in landing the job that he really, really wanted was he called someone on that fourth list. He called the encase of emergency only person, right? So he called me up and he says, oh my God, I got it. And I said what'd you get? He said it was this title, it was this company, it's, oh my God, it's the job I wanted. I've wanted it for the last three years, but I was stuck over here fixing all these problems and it's great. And so why? Now? What happened? And he said you made me call the person I was afraid to call.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:For the record, I did not hold his feet to the fire. I just said come on, buddy. You know let's be grownups here and what's he going to do? Hang up, and if he hangs up, you move on. But he didn't hang up. He said you know what? Yeah, I can help you with that I can make that introduction for you.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That's awesome. I think that's what we all just kind of need, because we carry these judgments and we feel so alone going through this whole process that it's only happening to me, and it's great to hear such stories like this. But I want to transition to more about you, right, okay, and your journey and how you started around the career search and things like that and some of the fears that you embarked on. What was that process like for you?
Speaker 2:It's a good question. So the short answer is I started a while ago in construction in that in home building, I was a lighting and electrical designer in their customer residential home building industry here in Indianapolis. That is a far cry from chief strategy officer for a career manager. That's a very long story short. My, the company I was working for, was going bankrupt and a recruiter called me and said hey, I need somebody who understands home building and worked for me. And I said no, don't like recruiters Not going to make call and bother me every day, don't want to be one Thanks. And he called me back and said Come on, come talk to me. And so I did a Garth young, god love him. He was the director of management recruiters here in Indianapolis and he taught me how to recruit. I knew how to talk to home builders, so I recruited in the national home building industry for many years, until 2008.
Speaker 2:And suddenly no one needed a home building recruiter anymore, For those of us of a certain generation, we remember that downturn and the home building market crashing, and so fast forward a couple of years. I opened my own resume writing and career management firm because what I did really really well as a recruiter was to each candidates how to interview. I had was a great at building relationships with people and I'm great at helping you get prepared and feel confident, and so that was the part I did really well. What I wasn't great at was that cold calling and that marketing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those 150 phone calls a day, because back in the day, it wasn't Lincoln you were picking up the phone, and so I wasn't great at that. And so I took what I was great at and started a couple of years after 2008,. People were coming to me saying hey, you know, I'm going to go on a job search. Will you help me? I'm going to write my resume, Will you guide me through this interview? I'll pay you sort of thing. I had no intention of ever owning my own business, and yet I had these checks in my hand. So I called my banker and said what do I do with these? And she said congratulations, you're becoming a business today.
Speaker 1:And that's awesome.
Speaker 2:I did and had the business for about 12 years with my partner, who also doubles as my husband, Jason, and at the same time Debra Boggs and Steve Boggs was billed. They were building DNS career executive crew management at the same time. So we've all been friends for many years, began working together, supporting each other's businesses, all of those things, and in November of 20, we sat down and said what happens if we all do this together? And so, 13 months of figuring it out, we merged officially January 1st and I joined DNS as the chief strategy officer and brought the Circle City on September to DNS. So still working with all of their awesome executive clients, all of those sort of things, and then leading the team and building strategy for our entire team of 12 writers and coaches. So it's been a joy ride.
Speaker 1:Yes that's awesome. That's totally awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Of course, what separates you from your competition?
Speaker 2:As a company or as a coach.
Speaker 1:The company.
Speaker 2:The company. What is the attention to detail and the care we put in with clients? So when we're working with a client, it becomes very personal. We get emails literally daily of this coach made. They said this thing and it changed my life. Oh my gosh, I felt so supported by your team Because when you come on as a client for DNS executive career management, we sort of surround you with a whole team of people. Okay Right, so you not only have your coach, you have your resume writer. If you're continuing with additional coaching services, you're going to be working with a coach throughout that process, and we have multiple coaches on staff, so we're going to make sure we have the right person for you paired up to you. In many ways, coaching is a lot like finding a good counselor you need to make sure it's a good fit, yes, and so we are working hard to make sure that everybody feels supported and that everyone has the unique coaching and value that they need from us.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:So it's really bespoke in many ways. I don't that word always feels corny to me, but it is that individualized, really truly personal, high touch approach.
Speaker 1:Yes, and what is your coaching style?
Speaker 2:My dad asked that's a good question. So what I always say and I think this is true for many of our coaches is that we ask more questions than we give answers, right. So if you're going to come to us and say, give me an assessment and tell me what my next job should be, we're probably enough to write for you. Instead, we are working to say okay, what do you want to be doing? What are you passionate about, right? What do you like about what you've done? What do you not like, right? Where do you see this going? Sort of thing. So we're asking a lot of the hard questions and then helping you dive in to find the answers. We're supporting you and finding the answers, but we're not giving you as coaches.
Speaker 1:That's what we do we help people self discover their own journeys, right. So who is your clientele? Who are the people?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so our clientele is mostly senior level leaders to C level executives. They can range variety of industries, but they can range from startups in, say, a tech startup, something like that, to again, fortune 10, fortune, even five clients. So it's really a matter of us connecting with the person. We work with men and women all the time. You mentioned to me earlier that you know some people have more of a clientele one way or the other. We don't we don't really specialize in working with a certain gender, something like that, a certain part of the country. We work all over the country. We work all over the Northern, basically all over North America as well. So we're excited to work with the people who are looking for that next step in their career or, again, as I mentioned, looking for a board opportunity, something like that. So they're looking to gain some board experience, join a board of directors, that sort of thing. We guide them through that process too, because it's a slightly different process.
Speaker 1:What's the difference between those processes?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So when we're looking at a board role for a client is saying, hey, I want to, I want to join my first board, we're talking, we're changing the narrative on their resume, we're changing the narrative on their bio. We're changing the narrative and how we help them prep because we're talking about governance. Right, we're talking about leadership from a board level, not the tactical we want boards.
Speaker 2:Want to know that you have some tactical experience, but they really want to see that overarching leadership, because your job at a board level is not to get into the nitty gritty detail and do right, it's to lead. And so it's a different, it's literally a different layout of document, typically things like that as well. And then the interview speaks to more of those governance pieces, possibly more about your executive network, things like that too.
Speaker 1:And how do we find you?
Speaker 2:You can find us at our website, which was, which is DScareermanagementcom. You can connect with me on LinkedIn as well, so you can just search Michelle Merritt with two Ls, two Rs and two Ts. It's just to have everything. And you can search for me on LinkedIn too. I have lots of followers on LinkedIn and always welcome more.
Speaker 1:Thank you. You dropped so much of wisdom today. I appreciate you. Any last comments, thoughts, nuggets, tips that you would like to leave the audience.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, what I would say is don't be afraid, right, step out of your comfort zone. Right, the good stuff is on the other side.
Speaker 1:Yes, indeed, Michelle. Thank you for your time.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:This was a magnificent conversation. Love your energy. I highly recommend anybody to reach out to Michelle. Her energy is off the charts. Just in our conversation today, I'm sure she can bring that same energy and helping you self discover what that next role is going to be for you. So thank you, michelle, thank you for your time and really much appreciate you.
Speaker 2:Thanks a bunch.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining me in this episode of let's Think About it. Your time and attention are greatly appreciated. If you found value in today's discussion, I encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Remember, the journey of self-improvement is ongoing and I'm here to support you every step of the way. Connect with me on social media for updates and insights. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook at CoachmoleCoaching, or LinkedIn at Maurice Maverick, or visit my website at MauriceMaverickcom for exclusive content. Until next time, keep reflecting, keep growing and, most importantly, keep believing in yourself. Remember, the most effective way to do it is to do it Together. We're making incredible strides toward a better and more empowered you, so thank you, and I'll see you in our next episode.